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Can $E=mc^2$ be derived using waves other than light?

Einstein's derivation of his famous equation $E=mc^2$ relies on light waves (or photons). He considered a scenario with a light-emitting material at the origin $O$ that emits light equally in both the $+y$ and $-y$ directions, resulting in a total momentum of zero. He then analyzed this same situation from a different moving frame.

This leads me to wonder: could a similar derivation be possible using waves that aren't light-based—such as sound waves, waves on strings, or water waves? Is this a valid line of thought? Can anyone provide a derivation using such waves? Furthermore, was a derivation of this nature theoretically accessible to Newton through Galilean relativity?

Edit:

After reflecting on @ACuriousMind's insights, I've come to understand that we likely can't derive the precise formula $E=mc^2$ solely within the confines of Newtonian mechanics and Galilean relativity. However, is it possible to derive an approximate relationship between the energy $E$ lost by the material and the corresponding change in mass $\Delta m$?

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    $\begingroup$ I don't understand the question: The relevant thing about light isn't that it's a wave, it's that Einstein postulated that it had the same speed in different frames. Why would you postulate that e.g. a water wave has the same speed in different frames? $\endgroup$
    – ACuriousMind
    Commented Sep 21 at 9:15
  • $\begingroup$ @ACuriousMind my interpretation if the Q is: how you show this, e.g., for electrons. $\endgroup$
    – Roger V.
    Commented Sep 21 at 9:20
  • $\begingroup$ @ACuriousMind When I looked at the derivation, to me, it did not seem that the light speed being same in all inertial frames, is actually crucial to the derivation. Please correct me if I am wrong. In one frame, there is no $x$ momentum to consider at all. But in the other frame, there is a decrease in $x$ momentum of the material without changing its velocity, which is only possible if the mass decreases. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 21 at 10:15
  • $\begingroup$ @ACuriousMind And the wave point, is only because of the following reason: Assume two particles are released by the material in an equal manner. Of course the mass of the material will decrease, that requires no $E=mc^2$ to be explained, right? $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 21 at 10:18
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    $\begingroup$ When I looked at the derivation, to me, it did not seem that the light speed being same in all inertial frames, is actually crucial to the derivation. Please correct me if I am wrong. You are wrong; it is crucial. The whole problem special relativity was initially set to solve was that classical mechanics had one type of invariance and Maxwell's equations had another, different type of invariance. Maxwell's equations apply to electro-magnetism, and therefore EM-waves by extension, not other types of waves. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 21 at 17:13

2 Answers 2

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Let me propose another angle:
Note that $E=mc^2$ is the size of the gap for the spectrum obtained from the Dirac equation. Of course, the Dirac equation is based on $E= mc^2+p^2c^4$, but this indight essentially means that we can define the rest energy for any gapped spectrum - electrons in semiconductors, phonons, magnons, etc.

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Let us derive mass-energy-relation if momentum of any sound-wave is zero:

Two identical blocks move side-by-side along y-axis. An energetic sound-wave is is emitted by the left block and absorbed by the right block.

Before and after both blocks have momentum $mv$, and velocity $v$, so before and after they must have mass $m$.

So, as energies of blocks changed, but masses did not change, it follows that energy is massless.


Let us derive mass-energy-relation if momentum of sound-wave is:

$ E/c^2 * v$ where E is energy and v is velocity vector of the sound-wave.

Two identical blocks move slowly side-by-side along y-axis. A sound-wave with energy $1J$ is emitted by the left block and absorbed by the right block.

As y-momentums of the blocks changed by $1J/c^2*v$, and y-velocities of blocks did not change, it follows that $1J$ of energy moving at velocity $v$ must have momentum $1J/c^2 * v$.

So $1J$ of energy must have mass $1J/c^2$.

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  • $\begingroup$ If you are going to assume the momentum of the sound wave is $E/c^2 * v$, then aren't you begging the question, i.e., just assuming the final answer? $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 23 at 5:35
  • $\begingroup$ @PhyEnthusiast Yes. I just felt that it would be interesting to do that calculation. $\endgroup$
    – stuffu
    Commented Oct 6 at 21:50

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