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I have been trying to figure out the solution to this problem of finding the "velocity" of de-Broglie's wave. I have tried to see answers from countless sources but none of them helped. My book provides me with the solution that : v = (hf)/(mc) . Where m is the mass of particle , f is the frequency, h is Planck constant and c is speed of light.

And this came from the fact that they used the formula c = f×(lambda) and substituted it in de-Broglie's equation for wavelength of a particle (= h/p) , which is really absurd to me as to why does the speed of light come here? Shouldn't it be v(wave)= f×(lambda) . Now I've also read that it has something to do with group velocity of matter waves but none of the sources which I read really explained as to why speed of light should be at play here. Can anyone explain this?

Thanks :)

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  • $\begingroup$ I've provided an answer (and fixed some obvious glaring errors in it), but can you please provide more context for the question? As it is, it sure seems like that factor of $c$ being in there doesn't make sense. However, once you've reached $v_p = h/2m\lambda$, I suppose one could put this in terms of the frequency of a light-wave with the same wavelength by replacing $\lambda = c/f$. This would not be the same $f$ as my post, and I don't know why one would do this, but maybe there's some physical context that's missing from the question. $\endgroup$
    – march
    Commented Oct 11, 2023 at 2:04
  • $\begingroup$ Related : About de Broglie relations, what exactly is E? Its energy of what?. $\endgroup$
    – Voulkos
    Commented Oct 11, 2023 at 11:17

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The important notion here is known as the dispersion relation of the wave. It relates the temporal properties of the wave (i.e., its frequency $\omega$) to the spatial properties of the wave (i.e., its wave vector), and this relationship is different for different types of wave. For light in vacuum, the relationship is exactly $\omega=ck$ so that $\omega$ grows linearly with $k$, but for matter waves, the relationship is different. The dispersion relation is computed using the corresponding "wave" equation which represents the equation of motion for the system: it comes from Maxwell's equation in the context of light and from Schrodinger's equation in the context of quantum particles.

Details below the break.

For completeness (and we will use these below):

de Broglie's hypothesis relates the energy of a matter wave to its frequency, i.e., $E=hf = \hbar\omega$, and the momentum to its wavelength, i.e., $p = h/\lambda = \hbar k$.


Now, the energy of a free particle of mass $m$ is given by just the kinetic energy, $p^2/2m$. According to the de Broglie hypothesis, the momentum of a particle is given by $p=\hbar k = h/\lambda$, i.e, the momentum of a particle is related to the spatial characteristics of the corresponding matter wave. Then, using the kinetic energy of a particle, we can derive the dispersion relation for matter waves as $$ \hbar\omega = E = \frac{p^2}{2m} = \frac{(\hbar k)^2}{2m}\,, $$ so that $$ \omega = \frac{\hbar k^2}{2m}\,. $$

Now, without getting into the details (you should look these up), the phase velocity of a monochromatic wave of angular frequency $\omega$ is given by $v_p=\omega/k$, whereas the group velocity of a wave-packet centered near $k$ is give by $v_g = d\omega/dk$. Therefore, for a matter wave, $$ v_p = \frac{\omega}{k} = \frac{\hbar k^2/2m}{k} = \frac{\hbar k}{2m} =\frac{h}{2m\lambda}\,, $$ and $$ v_g = \frac{d\omega}{dk} = \frac{d}{dk}\frac{\hbar k^2}{2m} = \frac{\hbar k}{m} =\frac{h}{m\lambda}\,. $$


We can see that $c$ never appears here. In the context of light waves, since the dispersion relation is $\omega = c k$, then we can compute the phase and group velocities as $$ v_{p,\textrm{light}} = \frac{\omega}{k} = \frac{c k}{k} = c\,, $$ and $$ v_{g,\textrm{light}} = \frac{d\omega}{dk} = \frac{d}{dk}(c k) = c\,, $$ and so in that context, the phase and group velocities for light is equal to the constant $c$, as it should.

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  • $\begingroup$ Opening paragraph says "$v=f\lambda$ shouldn't be used at all"; closing paragraph says "$v_p = \omega/k$" but $\omega/k=(2\pi f)/(2\pi/\lambda) = f \lambda$ so $v_p = f \lambda$ which contradicts statement in opening paragraph where we are told not to use $f \lambda$. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 10, 2023 at 22:05
  • $\begingroup$ @AndrewSteane Oh man, you're right. That's silly. Let me edit. I clearly wasn't thinking clearly. $\endgroup$
    – march
    Commented Oct 11, 2023 at 1:50
  • $\begingroup$ @AndrewSteane Thanks for the comments. I think I fell victim to an inversion in my thinking, mixing up the dispersion relation and the definition of the phase velocity and thinking of them somehow as the same thing and therefore rejecting $\omega = v k$ for matter waves. The post is fixed now. I'm still not sure that $hf/mc$ makes any sense, though: it seems like you can take the standard quantum expression ($h/m\lambda$) and use $c=f\lambda$ and backfill the velocity in terms of the corresponding frequency of a light wave, but I'm not sure why one would do this. Anyway. Thanks again. $\endgroup$
    – march
    Commented Oct 11, 2023 at 2:02
  • $\begingroup$ @march I really appreciate you giving time to answer my question.This question is in context of de-Broglie's wavelength and matter waves. They used de-Broglies equation and took v (velocity of particle) to the LHS and lambda to RHS and substituted lambda = c/(frequency) to arrive at the answer provided. Now I can't understand how come they use this if de-Broglie isn't even an EM wave ? So do people use relation c = lambda * frequency even for matter waves ? If not then what could be the explanation ? $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 11, 2023 at 5:51
  • $\begingroup$ @march The answer provided in one of the website is : De-broglie hypothesized that any particle should exhibit duality. The velocity of a particle is always equal to group velocity of the corresponding wave. Thus, the velocity of debgrolie is given by: (hf) /(mc) . ​Link : toppr.com/ask/question/velocity-of-de-broglie-wave-is-given-by . $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 11, 2023 at 5:57

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