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Only recently I learned of E. Minguzzi's article
"Clocks' synchronization without round-trip conditions", [gr-qc: arXiv:1009.3005] ...
(Notably, the article available for download is dated May 23, 2022.)

In this article, Minguzzi ...

... introduce[s] a mathematical framework which will allow us to deal with the problem of synchronization [...]
It will prove particularly general [...] At first the mathematical framework may seem somewhat abstract ...

... and in terms of this abstract framework he goes on to propose ...

... a generalization of the Poincaré-Einstein method [of synchronizing distant clocks.]

I have two specific questions about the presentation ...


Summary of the Abstract Framework

For clarity, and summarizing my understanding, in the following I'd first like to iterate the whole "abstract framework" laid out in the article; in terms of Minguzzi's notation, and introducing the essential (but not all) terminology. It features:

  • set $S$ called the space, each element $s \in S$ being called a space point or clock;

  • spacetime $M$ , whose elements are called events, defined as the disjoint union $M = \bigcup_{s \in S} \mathbb E_s$ where $\mathbb E_s$ are one-dimensional affine spaces over ...

  • ... one-dimensional vector spaces $T_s$,
    that is given two elements $e_1, e_2 \in \mathbb E_s$ the difference makes sense and belongs to $T_s$;

  • for each $s \in S$ a unit of measure $\tau_s \in T_s$ [...] such that $e_2 - e_1 = t_{12} \tau_s$ [... for] number $t_{12} \in \mathbb R$;

  • the space of units of measure is $T = \bigcup_{s \in S} T_s$, and $\pi_{TS} : T \rightarrow S$ is the canonical projection [...]
    $T$ is time oriented in the sense that a choice of positive halve for $T_s$ has been made at each $s \in S$ (which makes the inequality $e^{\prime} − e \ge 0$ meaningful if $e$ and $e^{\prime}$ belong to the same fiber);

  • a natural projection $\pi : M \rightarrow S $ which assigns to [event] $e \in M$ [...] the point $s$ such that $e \in \mathbb E_s$;

  • propagation map $P : M \times S \rightarrow M$ [...] given the event $e_{s_1} \in M, \pi[ \, e_{s_1} \, ] = s_1,$ and $s_2 \in S$, the map sends the pair $(e_{s_1}, s_2)$ to a new event $e_{s_2} = P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_2 \, ]$ which projects on $s_2$;

  • propagation map $p : T \times S \rightarrow T$ which for any given [...] $\tau_{s_1} \in T_{s_1}$ and point $s_2 \in S$ gives $p[ \, \tau_{s_1}, s_2 \, ] \in T_{s_2}$.

On those two types of propagation maps there are the following four groups of conditions imposed:

(a) Given a sequence of points $s_0$, $s_1$ and $s_2$, map $P$ satisfies

$$ P[ \, P[ \, e_{s_0}, s_1 \, ], s_2 \, ] - P[ \, e_{s_0}, s_2 \, ] \ge 0. $$

(b) It is $\qquad P[ \, e_{s_0}, s_0 \, ] = e_{s_0}, \qquad$ and (more generally):
Given a sequence $s_0, s_1, . . . s_j$ of $j \ge 1$ distinct points, the cyclic composition of maps $P$ satisfies $$ \underbrace{P[ \, P[ \, ... P[ }_{(j + 1) \text{ times}} \, e_{s_0}, s_1 \, ], ..., s_j \, ], s_0 \, ] - e_{s_0} \ge 0.$$

(c) $P$ is an affine map that is for every $e_{s_1} \in \mathbb E_{s_1}, s_2 \in S,$ and $\tau_{s_1} \in T_{s_1}$ it is $$ P[ \, e_{s_1} + \tau_{s_1}, s_2 \, ] = P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_2 \, ] + p[ \, \tau_{s_1}, s_2 \, ]. \tag{*}$$

$\qquad$ Stated in another way, if $e_{s_1}, e^{\prime}_{s_1} \in \mathbb E_{s_1}$ and $s_2 \in S$, then $$ P[ \, e^{\prime}_{s_1}, s_2 \, ] - P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_2 \, ] = p[ \, e^{\prime}_{s_1} - e_{s_1}, s_2 \, ].$$

$\qquad$ Correspondingly, $p$ is an injective linear map which preserves the time orientation of $T$,
$\qquad$ that is for every $\tau_{s_1} \in T_{s_1}, s_2 \in S$, and $\alpha \in \mathbb R$: $\, p[ \, \tau_{s_1}, s_2 \, ]$ is positive iff $\tau_{s_1}$ is positive, and
$$p[ \, \alpha \, \tau_{s_1}, s_2 \, ] = \alpha \, p[ \, \tau_{s_1}, s_2 \, ].$$

(d) It is $\qquad p[ \, \tau_{s_0}, s_0 \, ] = \tau_{s_0}, \qquad$ and (more generally):
Given a sequence $s_0, s_1, . . . s_j$ of $j \ge 1$ distinct points, the cyclic composition of maps $p$ satisfies $$ \underbrace{p[ \, p[ \, ... p[ }_{(j + 1) \text{ times}} \, \tau_{s_0}, s_1 \, ], ..., s_j \, ], s_0 \, ] = \tau_{s_0}.$$

(The equation marked $(*)$ above is in Minguzzi's article numbered as equation $(3)$.)


Question 1:

Proceding with a discussion of the related syntonization problem, Minguzzi presents as a solution the assignment $(5)$:

$$p[ \, \tau_{s_1}, s_2 \, ] = {\huge \tau_{s_2}}. \tag{5}$$ After some brief remark he continues:

As a consequence, throughout this work we shall omit reference to the application $p$ assuming that a section $\tau$ with property $(5)$ has been chosen. Thus [...] equations such as $(3)$

... i.e. correspondingly eq. $(*)$ above ...

can be written more sloppily

$$ P[ \, e_{s_1} + \tau_{s_1}, s_2 \, ] = P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_2 \, ] + {\huge \tau_{s_1}}. \tag{6}$$

Should this not much rather be instead:

$$ P[ \, e_{s_1} + \tau_{s_1}, s_2 \, ] = P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_2 \, ] + {\huge \tau_{s_2}} \tag{$6^{\prime}$}$$ ?


Might Minguzzi's equation $(6)$, as stated, possibly be a misprint ?? ...
Or, if this equation $(6)$ is indeed exactly as Minguzzi intended, then -- what's the purpose of such apparent "sloppy writing", namely of putting $\large \tau_{s_1}$ where eq. $(5)$ inserted in eq. $(3)$ a.k.a. $(*)$ so obviously suggests putting $\large \tau_{s_2}$ instead ?? ...


Question 2:

In the subsequent chapter Minguzzi turns to defining (among others)

function $r : S \times S \rightarrow [0, +\infty)$ [...] by

$$ r[ s_0, s_1 ] = P[ \, P[ \, e_{s_0}, s_1 \, ], s_0 \, ] - e_{s_0}. \tag{7} $$

Then he presents ...

Theorem 3.3 The function $r$ is symmetric. Proof. Recall that

$$ r[ s_1, s_0 ] = P[ \, P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_0 \, ], s_1 \, ] - e_{s_1}. \tag{**} $$

Since $P$ preserves the affine structure

$$ \begin{align} r[ s_1, s_0 ] & = & P[ \, P[ \, P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_0 \, ], s_1 \, ], s_0 \, ] - P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_0 \, ] \qquad & & \tag{***} \\ & = & P[ \, P[ \, (P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_0 \, ]), s_1 \, ], s_0 \, ] - (P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_0 \, ]) \, \, & = & r[ s_0, s_1 ]. & \tag{****} \end{align} $$

While I can accept the initial and the concluding part of this (supposed) proof by themselves, namely eq. $(**)$ and eq. $(* \! * \! * *)$ separately, as such, I'm doubtful about the intermediate part marked as eq. $(* \! * \!*)$.

Can eq. $(* \! * \! *)$ be derived explicitly from eq. $(**)$ and the relations (a) through (d), as laid out above ?


My suspicion to the contrary is motivated by setting

$$ P[ \, P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_0 \, ], s_1 \, ] \equiv e_{s_1} + \rho_{101} \, {\huge \tau_{s_1}} $$

for a certain suitable (generally non-zero) real number value $\rho_{101}$, and to conclude that thereby

$$ r[ s_1, s_0 ] = P[ \, P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_0 \, ], s_1 \, ] - e_{s_1} \equiv e_{s_1} + \rho_{101} \, \tau_{s_1} - e_{s_1} = \rho_{101} \, {\huge \tau_{s_1}}, $$

but using relations of (c), along with $(5)$ or $(6^{\prime})$:

$$ \begin{align} P[ \, P[ \, P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_0 \, ], s_1 \, ], s_0 \, ] - P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_0 \, ] & \equiv & ~ \\ P[ \, e_{s_1} + \rho_{101} \, \tau_{s_1}, s_0 \, ] - P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_0 \, ] \qquad & = & ~ \\ P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_0 \, ] + \rho_{101} \, p[ \, \tau_{s_1}, s_0 \, ] - P[ \, e_{s_1}, s_0 \, ] & = & \rho_{101} \, {\huge \tau_{s_0}}. \end{align}$$

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1 Answer 1

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Thank you for the interest in the paper. Let me mention that this work has not been published so far because soon after I posted it I worked on another version that expanded it while rearranging some of the material. Then I got into other matters, and due also to the size of the new version, never really found the time to polish it for publication. The paper is available from arxiv since 2010 and has not been changed.

Question 1. For $s_1,s_2\in S$ and any $v\in T_{s_1}$ consider the map $p_{12}[v]: =p[v, s_2]$. This is an isomorphism between $T_{s_1}$ and $T_{s_2}$. By property (d) these isomorphisms are compatible in the sense that $p_{23} \circ p_{12}=p_{13}$. Thus we can really work with just one 1-dimensional vector space, call it $T$, all the $T_s$ being canonically isomorphic with it. For instance, choose $s\in S$, and let $V:=T_s$, then use the isomorphism to $T_S$ to replace all the other vector spaces with $V$. Essentially, we are omitting the isomorphisms in the notation. So we write $$ P[e_{s_1}+v,s_2]=P[e_{s_1},s_2]+v$$ instead of $$ P[e_{s_1}+v,s_2]=P[e_{s_1},s_2]+p_{12}(v)$$ Both equations (6), (6') are correct but in (6') you need to add that $\tau_{s_2}$ is the image of $\tau_{s_1}$ under the isomorphism $p_{12}$, which is not suggested by the notation.

Question 2. Since $P$ is affine, applying $P[ ., s_0]$ to ($**$) $$ r[s_1,s_0]=P[P[P[e_{s_1},s_0],s_1]-e_{s_1},s_0]=P[P[P[e_{s_1},s_0],s_1],s_0]-P[e_{s_1},s_0] $$ which is ($* \! * \! *$). Now $x_{s_0}:=P[e_{s_1},s_0]$ is an event in $\mathbb{E}_{s_0}$ thus $$ r[s_1,s_0]= P[P[x_{s_0},s_1],s_0]-x_{s_0}=r[s_0,s_1] . $$

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  • $\begingroup$ Ettore Minguzzi: "[...] Then I got into other matters" -- All the more thanks for responding so rapidly. "Q1 [...] Essentially, we are omitting the isomorphisms in the notation." -- Aren't we thereby restricting compatible yet possibly distinct isomorphisms to being all equally the identity map ? AFAIU that's an additional constraint on (admissable) propagation maps $p$, beyond the requirements of the abstract framework (a,b,c,d) itself. (That's, like, castrating an otherwise fertile abstract framework, IMHO.) Your choice, obviously; but easy to omit. "Q2 [... contd.] $\endgroup$
    – user12262
    Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 11:09
  • $\begingroup$ Ettore Minguzzi: "Q2 Since $P$ is affine, applying $P[ ., s_0 ]$ to $(**)$ [...]" -- "Applying an operation to an equation" means application to both the left- and the right-hand side of the equation, correct?. (In your answer, apparently you did not.) Moreover, is operation $P[ ., s_0 ]$ (with domain $M$) even applicable at all to values of function $r$ ? Which, by the appearance of eq. $(7)$, are elements of $T$, the space of units of measure. ... Now, I realize that you defined the range of function $r$ instead even as $[0, +\infty)$. So: Even one more question. ... $\endgroup$
    – user12262
    Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 11:09
  • $\begingroup$ p.s.: Contrariwise: Have you been able to follow the counter-example (regarding Q2), at the end of my OP ? $\endgroup$
    – user12262
    Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 11:11
  • $\begingroup$ There is no assumption beside those emphasized. You can keep $p$ explicit but you would gain nothing from doing it. $P$ is affine and it was applied on both sides taking into account that it is an affine map associated to the linear map $p$. Since by the isomorphisms there is just one vector space you can replace it with $\mathbb{R}$ provided you choose a basis vector. This choice corresponds to a choice of unit of measure. So, as defined, r is a vector, but it becomes a real number if you introduce a unit of measure. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 13:14
  • $\begingroup$ Ettore Minguzzi: "[...] keep $p$ explicit but you would gain nothing" -- The "gain", so to say, appears as $$ r[ \, s_1, s_0 \, ] - r[ \, s_0, s_1 \, ] = \rho_{101} \, (\tau_{s_1} - p[ \, \tau_{s_1}, s_0 \, ]) \equiv \rho_ {101} \, (\tau_{s_1} - \tau_{s_0}),$$ which does not necessarily vanish; as opposed to Theorem 3.3. But I do note: $$ \rho_{010} = \rho_{101}.$$ "$P$ is affine, applied on both sides [of $(**)$] taking into account that it's associated to linear map $p$." -- Sorry: I'd be convinced only by explicit use of (a, b, c, d) directly from your article. $\endgroup$
    – user12262
    Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 19:22

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