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How can the following relation be justified, $$ P = \frac{p^2}{3E} $$ where $P$ is pressure, $p$ is momentum and $E$ is energy? In what convention is the above relation acceptable?

The source paper can be found here. The relation is not explicitly mentioned there but in the equations it is evident. Please refer to the 4$^\text{th}$ page for equations of state. Note that that speed of light $c$ and Planck's constant $h/2\pi$ are both taken as unity (one).

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  • $\begingroup$ Where from did you take this relation? How did you come to it? Dimensionally, the pressure is force divided by surface, or equivalently mass divided by (length $\times$ time$^2$), while $\frac {p^2}{E}$ has dimension of mass. So, anyway it's not good. $\endgroup$
    – Sofia
    Commented Feb 16, 2015 at 13:01
  • $\begingroup$ @lemon: Sofia is right, the dimensions don't work out. $\endgroup$
    – Ryan Unger
    Commented Feb 16, 2015 at 13:03
  • $\begingroup$ @0celo7 Good idea to check statements. Well done! $\endgroup$
    – Sofia
    Commented Feb 16, 2015 at 13:06
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    $\begingroup$ @Sofia: My first instinct is to look for missing $c$s and $\hbar$s. I don't think it works out. $\endgroup$
    – Ryan Unger
    Commented Feb 16, 2015 at 13:08
  • $\begingroup$ In particle physics, one kind of tends to take speed of light as 1. So, may be there is some point there for dimensional analysis. I am giving the source paper for the relation in the answer. $\endgroup$
    – MycrofD
    Commented Feb 16, 2015 at 13:08

2 Answers 2

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The equation $P=p^2/(3E)$ makes no sense (it connects a thermodynamic variables, $P$, to the momentum and energy of a single particle). It is also not dimensionally correct. With $c=1$ momentum $p$ and energy $E$ have the same units, but pressure has units of energy/volume (=energy*momentum$^3$).

The equations in the paper look o.k. Pressure is $$ P = \int d^3p\, p \frac{p}{E} \, f(p) $$ where $f$ is a dimensionless distribution function. The integral $d^3p$ gives 1/volume, $E=\sqrt{p^2+m^2}$ is an energy, $v=p/E$ is a velocity. This means we are integrating over $vp$, which is indeed the standard definition of pressure in kinetic theory.

For energy density $$ {\cal E} = \int d^3p\, E \, f(p) $$ which clearly makes sense.

Postscript: Pressure is defined as (in kinetic theory) $$ \Pi_{ij} = \int d^3p\, p_i \frac{p_j}{E}\, f(p) $$ with $\Pi_{ij}=\frac{1}{3}\delta_{ij}P$. Then $P= \frac{1}{3}\int d^3p\, p^2/E\, f(p)$ and now we have a rotationally invariant integrand $d^3p=4\pi p^2dp$.

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  • $\begingroup$ am sorry. if the equations in the paper look okay, then how doesn't the eqn make no sense.. You start saying it doesn't make sense, but later you say that they look ok. really can't get clear on you here. $\endgroup$
    – MycrofD
    Commented May 29, 2017 at 13:49
  • $\begingroup$ @MycrofD The equation I complain about is not actually in the paper (at least I don't see it) $\endgroup$
    – Thomas
    Commented May 29, 2017 at 14:01
  • $\begingroup$ uh, yeah. So, then this can be done, right? d3p pp/E = ppdp pp/E $\endgroup$
    – MycrofD
    Commented May 29, 2017 at 14:19
  • $\begingroup$ @MycrofD Not sure what you mean by "this". If you mean the pressure integrand then you have to be more careful, see postscript. $\endgroup$
    – Thomas
    Commented May 29, 2017 at 14:30
  • $\begingroup$ yeah, that's right. I just let go of the 4pi. you are right. $\endgroup$
    – MycrofD
    Commented May 29, 2017 at 14:35
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Using dimensional analysis, and the relations $p=mv$ and $E=mgh$, we can write: $$[P]=\dfrac{kg^2\cdot m^2\cdot s^{-2}}{kg\cdot m^2\cdot s^{-2}}=kg$$

And kilogrammes are obviously not a unit of pressure, therefore your relation doesn't have the correct dimensions.

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    $\begingroup$ you worked too hard, it were simpler to think that energy has the dimension of $\frac {p^2}{2m}$. $\endgroup$
    – Sofia
    Commented Feb 16, 2015 at 13:09
  • $\begingroup$ One should take spped of light being taken as unity into account. And yes, I second @Sofia $\endgroup$
    – MycrofD
    Commented Feb 16, 2015 at 13:13
  • $\begingroup$ @MycrofD you say "And let us remember that speed of light c and Planck's constant h/2π are both taken as unity (one)." Well, people cannot know that you work with certain conventions. So, when you ask for help, it's better to leave aside particular conventions and give the people the full formulas. It's advisable to economize time. $\endgroup$
    – Sofia
    Commented Feb 16, 2015 at 13:25
  • $\begingroup$ I am not sure how this relation came up. So I am asking. I forgot to cite the source and mention the convention at the first instant of asking the question, my apologies. $\endgroup$
    – MycrofD
    Commented Feb 16, 2015 at 13:31
  • $\begingroup$ I can't figure out a way to get the dimensions right with $c=\hbar=1$. However, if you add $G=1$, then you need to multiply your relation by $c^{13/2}\hbar^{-3/2}G^{-3/2}$ to get the right dimensions. And since it's pretty ugly, that makes me wonder if you got the relation right in the first place. $\endgroup$
    – Demosthene
    Commented Feb 16, 2015 at 13:33

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