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I'm trying to work through Galley's paper, The classical mechanics of non-conservative systems. It starts with a toy problem to demonstrate the need for his full approach. I'm certain understanding this toy problem is not essential for the paper, but the particulars leave me wondering if he is describing an actual physically-realizable system, or if he is choosing an unrealistic toy problem in order to make the mathematics easier.

An illustrative example. To demonstrate the shortcoming of Hamilton's principle, consider a harmonic oscillator with amplitude $q(t)$, mass $m$, and frequency $\omega$ coupled with strength $\lambda$ to another harmonic oscillator with amplitude $Q(t)$, mass $M$, and frequency, $\Omega$. The action for this system is

$$S[q,Q] = \int_{t_i}^{t_f}dt\left\{\frac m 2(\dot q^2 - \omega^2q^2) + \lambda qQ + \frac M 2(\dot Q^2 - \Omega^2Q^2)\right\}.\tag{1}$$

The two individual oscillator terms make sense, as the usual $T-U$ construction. However, I am trying to figure out what to do with $\lambda qQ$. If I try to get a force by taking the gradient, I get something that doesn't appear to be remotely linear. It feels strange that one might start with the simplest systems one can work with (harmonic oscillators), and then couple them with a rather exotic contraption.

Am I missing an obvious way to create a simple system with this potential term, or is this really just a rather unrealistic way to couple the systems for the sole purpose of making the later mathematics easier.

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    $\begingroup$ This is potentially a duplicate of physics.stackexchange.com/q/248025 . They had a different lagrangian, and sought any possible solution. I'm interested in solutions that might be practical. If it turns out that both lagrangians only serve as "toy" examples, that might make them similar enough to call them duplicates. $\endgroup$
    – Cort Ammon
    Commented Nov 15 at 17:47

2 Answers 2

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I think the problem of coupled pendulums or any coupled harmonic oscillators are based on a mutual force proportional to the relative displacement of the oscillators

$$ m\,\frac{d^2q}{dt^2} = - k(q - Q) $$

$$ m\,\frac{d^2Q}{dt^2} = - k(Q - q). $$

You can check that the potential that gives the right force of this system is

$$ U(q,Q) = \frac 12 k (q-Q)^2 $$

The full Hamiltonian is

$$ H = \frac 12 m \dot q^2 + \frac 12 m \dot Q^2 + \frac 12 (q-Q)^2 $$

If you open the binomial in the potential, we can write

$$ H = \left (\frac 12 \dot q^2 + \frac 12 kq^2\right ) + \left(\frac 12 m\dot Q^2 + \frac 12 kQ^2 \right) + kqQ $$

which is a linear term, like the one you have. The Masses could be different, with result in different independent frequencies.

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    $\begingroup$ As an extension of this, one could include terms corresponding to a harmonic potential acting on each term individually, of the form $\frac12 k' q^2$ or $\frac12 k' Q^2$. Adding such terms would allow the "pure" quadratic terms to have a different coefficient from the cross-term. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 15 at 18:57
  • $\begingroup$ Thank you! That opening the binomial bit was exactly what I was missing. It turns out that I misread Galley. I thought he said that $\omega$ and $\Omega$ were the natural frequencies of the SHOs. However, in light of your answer, I'm realizing he only said "frequency," and that the effect of the 3rd spring on the frequency was already included in it! This lead me to fail to see that binomial expansion (because the other two terms were "missing" in my eyes) $\endgroup$
    – Cort Ammon
    Commented Nov 15 at 19:24
  • $\begingroup$ I'm going to wait a day before accepting, as is recommended on SE, but I think you gave me exactly the answer I needed to keep moving forward! $\endgroup$
    – Cort Ammon
    Commented Nov 15 at 19:24
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The Langrange function is

$$\mathcal L=\frac m2 \left( {{\dot q}}^{2}-{\omega}^{2}{q}^{2} \right) +\lambda\,q\,Q+ \frac M2 \left( {{\dot Q}}^{2}-{\Omega}^{2}{Q}^{2} \right) $$

substitute $~\omega^2=\frac \lambda m~,\Omega^2=\frac \lambda M~$ you obtain

$$\mathcal L=\underbrace{\frac m2{{\dot q}}^{2}+\frac M2{{\dot Q}}^{2}}_{T}\underbrace{-\frac 12\,\lambda\,{q}^{2}+ \lambda\,q\,Q-\frac 12\,\lambda\,{Q}^{2}}_{-\frac \lambda 2\,(q-Q)^2=-U} $$

enter image description here

$~\lambda \quad [N/m]~$ is the spring constant

$$m\,\ddot q+\lambda(q-Q)=0\quad, \omega^2=\frac \lambda m\\ M\,\ddot Q-\lambda(q-Q)=0\quad, \Omega^2=\frac \lambda M$$

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