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I was learning about entropy the other day and did some exercises. This thing I didn't quite understand. For example, if we heat a bowl of water 50C from 20 to 70 it generates way more entropy than if we calculate heating using 10C steps. Why is that?

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  • $\begingroup$ you did the calculations incorrectly? Physical behaviour is independent of how you model it. $\endgroup$
    – JMLCarter
    Commented Mar 10, 2017 at 8:40
  • $\begingroup$ Did you take into account the temperature dependence of the specific heat? $\endgroup$
    – lemon
    Commented Mar 10, 2017 at 10:51

2 Answers 2

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Assume that the heat capacity of water $C_w$ is constant and denote the equilibrium temperatures as $T_k$ where $k=0,1,..M$ are the steps you take to reach the $T_f$ from the initial $T_0$ temperature. Then at each step above the equilibrium the infinitesimal entropy change is $$dS = C_w\left ( \frac{1}{T} - \frac{1}{T_{k}}\right) dT \tag{1}$$ Let us sum up these to get the total entropy change: $$\Delta S = \sum_{k=1}^{M} \int_{T_{k-1}}^{T_{k}}dS_k = \sum_{k=1}^{M}\int_{T_{k-1}}^{T_{k}}C_w\left ( \frac{1}{T} - \frac{1}{T_k}\right) dT$$

$$= C_w\int_{T_0}^{T_M} \frac{1}{T} dT - C_w\sum_{k=1}^{M}\int_{T_{{k-1}}}^{T_{k}}\left ( \frac{1}{T_k}\right) dT$$

$$= C_w \left(ln \frac{T_f}{T_0} - \sum_{k=1}^{M}\left ( \frac{T_{k}-T_{k-1}}{T_k}\right) \right)$$

$$= C_w \left(ln \frac{T_f}{T_0} - M +\sum_{k=1}^{M}\frac{T_{k-1}}{T_k} \right)$$ Now we have $M$ temperatures and we wish to minimize the sum $\sum_{k=1}^{M}\frac{T_{k-1}}{T_k}$ for $T_0<T_1<...<T_{M-1}<T_{M}=T_f$ for given $T_0,T_f$ and $M$. Using the inequality of the arithmetic and geometric means (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inequality_of_arithmetic_and_geometric_means) we see that $$\frac{1}{M}\sum_{k=1}^{M}\frac{T_{k-1}}{T_k} \ge \left(\prod_{k=1}^{M}\frac{T_{k-1}}{T_k} \right)^{1/M}=\left(\frac{T_0}{T_M} \right)^{1/M}$$

with equality iff for all $k$ $$\frac{T_{k}}{T_{k+1}}=\frac{T_{k-1}}{T_k}$$ from which we get successively that $T_2 = \frac{T_1^2}{T_0}$, $T_3 = \frac{T_2^2}{T_1} = \frac{T_1^3}{T_0^2}$, $T_4 = \frac{T_3^2}{T_2} = \frac{T_1^4}{T_0^3}$, and in general $T_k = \frac{T_1^k}{T_0^{k-1}}$. For$k=M$ we have $T_M = \frac{T_1^M}{T_0^{M-1}}$ from which we can express $T_1$ as $T_1 = T_0\left(\frac{T_M}{T_0}\right) ^{1/M}$ and thus the optimum temperature settings are $$T_k=T_0 \left( \frac{T_M}{T_0}\right)^{k/M} \tag 2$$ Using $T_f=T_M$ the corresponding entropy change is $$\Delta S \ge C_w \left(ln\frac{T_f}{T_0}-M+M\left(\frac{T_0}{T_f}\right)^{1/M} \right) \tag 3$$ Next for fixed $x$ and large $M$ expand $ln(x)-M+Mx^{-1/M}$ as $$ln(x)-M+Mx^{-1/M} =ln(x) - M + exp(-ln(x)/M)$$ $$\approx ln(x)-M+M \left( 1-\frac{ln(x)}{M} + \frac{1}{2} \frac{ln(x)^2}{M^2}\right)+....$$ $$\approx ln(x)-M + M - ln(x) + \frac{1}{2} \frac{ln(x)^2}{M}+....$$ $$\approx \frac{1}{2} \frac{ln(x)^2}{M}+....$$ Use this in (3) $$\Delta S \ge \frac{C_w}{2M} \left(ln\frac{T_f}{T_0}\right)^2 + ...$$ with the lower limit (equality) for the optimum steps of (2). As $M \rightarrow \infty$ the lower limit is $0$.

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  • $\begingroup$ Beginning from "...with equality iff for all k..." the argument is not clear (to me). Could you please add some intermediate steps? Also eqn-2 seems to say that $T_k$ is a constant for a given $K$. Is that correct? $\endgroup$
    – Deep
    Commented Mar 11, 2017 at 11:15
  • $\begingroup$ @Deep I corrected some typos and added steps and a reference to clarify $\endgroup$
    – hyportnex
    Commented Mar 11, 2017 at 13:55
  • $\begingroup$ +1 Nice answer. Just one more typo: after eqn-3 we must have $\ln(x)-M+Mx^{-1/M}$, although the final expression has come out right. $\endgroup$
    – Deep
    Commented Mar 12, 2017 at 4:15
  • $\begingroup$ @Deep, yes, of course, you are right, thank you for catching it. $\endgroup$
    – hyportnex
    Commented Mar 12, 2017 at 14:28
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The rate at which entropy is generated (in heating situations like this) is proportional to the square of the local temperature gradient, integrated over the volume of the material. If the material is subjected to small temperature steps (say, by contact with reservoirs with different temperatures), and, during each step, it is allowed to equilibrate, the temperature gradients during each step are much lower, and the amount of entropy generated is much less. In either case, the entropy change of the water is independent of the heating history. So, although the entropy is generated within the water, less entropy gets transferred in from the single reservoir in the single step situation than from the series of reservoirs (at different temperatures) in the multi step situation. So the decrease in entropy of the single reservoir is less than the decrease in entropy of the sequence of reservoirs at the different temperatures. The total change in entropy for the combination of water and reservoirs is thus greater in the single reservoir case.

ADDENDUM

Consider the case of a rod of length L. The rod is initially at temperature $T_0$, and, at time t = 0, the end at x = 0 is suddenly changed to $T_1$ while the end at x = L continues insulated. The transient heat conduction for the rod is given by: $$\rho C\frac{\partial T}{\partial t}=k\frac{\partial^2T}{\partial x^2}$$where $\rho$ is the density, C is the heat capacity, and k is the thermal conductivity. If we multiply this equation by the cross sectional area of the rod, A, and integrate between x = 0 and x =L, we obtain: $$\frac{d\left[\int_0^L{\rho CA (T-T_0)dx}\right]}{dt}=-kA\left[\frac{\partial T}{\partial x}\right]_{x=0}$$But, $$\frac{d\left[\int_0^L{\rho CA (T-T_0)dx}\right]}{dt}=\frac{d(\Delta U)}{dt}$$and $$-kA\left[\frac{\partial T}{\partial x}\right]_{x=0}=\frac{dQ}{dt}$$where $\Delta U$ is the change in internal energy between time 0 and time t, and Q is the cumulative heat transferred at x = 0 up to time t. So, we have: $$\frac{d(\Delta U)}{dt}=\frac{dQ}{dt}$$This is nothing more than a transient form of the first law of thermodynamics for the rod.

Next let's consider what we get if we multiply the transient heat conduction equation by 1/T, and integrate between x = 0 and x=L: $$\frac{d\left[\int_0^L{\rho CA \ln{\frac{T}{T_0}}dx}\right]}{dt}=kA\int_0^L{\left[\frac{1}{T}\frac{\partial^2T}{\partial x^2}\right]dx}$$If we integrate the right hand side by parts, we obtain: $$\frac{d\left[\int_0^L{\rho CA \ln{\frac{T}{T_0}}dx}\right]}{dt}=-\frac{kA}{T_1}\left[\frac{\partial T}{\partial x}\right]_{x=0}+\int_0^L{\frac{kA}{T^2}\left(\frac{dT}{dx}\right)^2}dx$$But, $$\frac{d\left[\int_0^L{\rho CA \ln{\frac{T}{T_0}}dx}\right]}{dt}=\frac{d(\Delta S)}{dt}$$and $$-\frac{kA}{T_1}\left[\frac{\partial T}{\partial x}\right]_{x=0}=\frac{d(Q/T_1)}{dt}$$where $\Delta S$ is the change in entropy of the rod between time zero and time t and $Q/T_1$ is the cumulative amount of heat added at the boundary x = 0 divided by the (constant) boundary temperature $T_1$. So we have, $$\frac{d(\Delta S)}{dt}=\frac{d(Q/T_1)}{dt}+\int_0^L{\frac{kA}{T^2}\left(\frac{dT}{dx}\right)^2}dx$$ If we integrate this equation with respect to time, we obtain:$$\Delta S=Q/T_1+\int_0^t{\int_0^L{\frac{kA}{T^2}\left(\frac{dT}{dx}\right)^2dx}dt}\tag{1}$$Note that the second term on the right hand side of this equation is positive definite. Therefore, it follows that $$\Delta S\geq Q/T_1$$This is the Clausius inequality for the system under consideration. It also follows from Eqn. 1 that the second term on the right hand side represents physically the cumulative amount of entropy generated in the rod between time t = 0 and time t (while the first term on the right hand side represents the amount of entropy transferred to the rod from the reservoir at temperature $T_1$ at the boundary x = 0).

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  • $\begingroup$ The very first statement, is it a result from non-equilibrium thermodynamics? $\endgroup$
    – Deep
    Commented Mar 11, 2017 at 11:16
  • $\begingroup$ Also would your answer change if one imagined a situation where temperature of the body changed in time, but with temperature remaining uniform over the entire body at each time instant? $\endgroup$
    – Deep
    Commented Mar 11, 2017 at 11:23
  • $\begingroup$ Not exactly. It is the result of applying the transient heat conduction equation, and calculating the rate of entropy generation locally, together with integrating the rate of entropy generation over the volume of the body. Regarding the 2nd question, if there is some sort of spatially uniform heating occurring within the body (involving, say, microwaves), that would be non-conductive, but would still also result in entropy generation within the body. So it is not exclusively heat conduction that is capable of generating entropy. Good point. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 11, 2017 at 11:59
  • $\begingroup$ +1 Actually I was thinking of the situation where thermal conductivity of body $k\to \infty$ (or equivalently Biot number $\to\infty$). $\endgroup$
    – Deep
    Commented Mar 12, 2017 at 4:19
  • $\begingroup$ Contact with an ideal heat reservoir is the same as an infinite Biot number, since the heat transfer coefficient on the reservoir side of the contact boundary is taken as infinite. But, even in this case, it would still be relevant to ask what the effect would be of changing the body thermal conductivity. So, good question. The rate of entropy generation is not only proportional to square of the local temperature gradient; it is also proportional to the thermal conductivity. This, in addition to the more rapid equilibration, results in no change in no change in the conclusions. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 12, 2017 at 12:29

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