2
$\begingroup$

Alice lives in 1+1 dimensional Minkowski spacetime. Bob travels at a constant velocity $v$ with respect to Alice. When Alice assigns coordinates $(t,x)$ to an event, Bob assigns coordinates $F(t,x)$ to that event. I'll call $F$ allowable if it leads to physics that satisfies Einstein's postulates. Obviously the Lorentz transformation $L$ is allowable.

Light-clock style arguments convince me of this:

If $F$ extends to an allowable transformation on 2+1 dimensional Minkowsi spacetime, then the restrictions of $F$ and $L$ to the inside of Alice's future lightcone must agree.

This leads to two questions:

Question 1: If I don't require $F$ to extend to a higher-dimensional spacetime, must it still agree with $L$ inside Alice's future lightcone?

Question 2: If $F$ does agree with $L$ inside Alice's future lightcone, must it agree with $L$ everywhere?

Some notes:

  • I care about Question 1 because I want to derive the Lorentz transformation for students who have already been told that we will restrict our attention to 1+1 dimensional spacetime for simplicity. I'd therefore prefer not to invoke an additional spatial dimension. (Yes, there are all sorts of ways to justify this, including the fact that there is obviously more than one spatial dimension in the real world. But that still seems at least mildly jarring given the initial setup.)
  • Question 2 of course becomes trivial if we assume that $F$ must be linear, or even just rational. But I'd prefer not to make extra assumptions.
  • For each question, if the answer is "yes", my followup question is: "Is there an easy way to prove this with arguments at about the level of the light-clock stuff?" If the answer is "no", then my followup question is "What are some minimal assumptions that could convert the answer to "yes"?
  • I've held Bob's velocity fixed and asked for a transformation $F$. I could instead ask for a family of transformations $F(v)$ depending on velocity. This might or might not change the answers.
  • Maybe there's enough mathematical vagueness in "Einstein's postulates" that these questions admit multiple answers. I'll still be interested in those answers.
$\endgroup$

1 Answer 1

1
$\begingroup$

While my answer doesn't really answer your Questions 1 or 2, these may help:

$\endgroup$
5
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ This solves my question #1. I was groping toward something like what you call the Bondi-k-calculus, with Alice bouncing light signals off events both on and off Bob's worldline, but was missing the key observation that the "k-factor" from Alice to Bob must be the same as the k-factor from Bob to Alice; therefore I had one too few equations and couldn't get anywhere. In retrospect, this should have been blindingly obvious (which might explain why I got a downvote), but without you, I wasn't seeing it. $\endgroup$
    – WillO
    Commented Aug 24, 2023 at 22:37
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ With that extra equation, it seems to me that I can get everything from the k-calculus that I can get from light-clocks, without assuming an extra dimension. $\endgroup$
    – WillO
    Commented Aug 24, 2023 at 22:38
  • $\begingroup$ As for Question 2, the problem with light-clocks is that to find the transform of (t,x), I have Alice hold her stick at angle ArcCos[x/t] to the ground; this only works for (t,x) in her future lightcone. Bondi has the same problem; it only works for events Alice can eventually send lightsignals to. But I think there is an easy fix in both cases; just assume Alice made all her measurements at an earlier time when (t,x) was still in her future. There are some mild additional hypotheses needed to make this legit, but they seem less objectionable than just out-and-out assuming linearity. $\endgroup$
    – WillO
    Commented Aug 24, 2023 at 22:40
  • $\begingroup$ @WillO Since it is known that Minkowski spacetime is an affine geometry, like Euclidean geometry and Galilean spacetime geometry, it might be helpful to also consider possibly analogous assumptions in the Euclidean and Galilean case. From this viewpoint, it seems to me, that there is often a heavier burden placed on special relativity, as if the Euclidean and Galilean cases are somehow treated as "given". $\endgroup$
    – robphy
    Commented Aug 25, 2023 at 6:05
  • $\begingroup$ I take your point and I sympathize with it. But I am sure that if I were teaching classical mechanics, I'd worry just as much about the same sorts of issues. $\endgroup$
    – WillO
    Commented Aug 25, 2023 at 13:54

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.