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I'm new to physics and i just started studying energy and i have a question:

  • Consider an object (mass m=2kg) dropped freely from a height h = 2m (there is no friction between object and air).
  1. If potential energy mgh only belongs to object, so its energy is E = PE + KE + U according to the law of conservation of energy, we have: ΔE = ΔPE + ΔKE + ΔU = Wg + Q but Wg = 2102 = 40(J) and Q = 0 (because there is no friction between air and object) and ΔPE + ΔKE = 0 so ΔU = 40(J), so its internal energy changed (?) but I know this is wrong because the object volume and its tempurature don't change and U = f(V,T) Therefore, potential energy should belongs to system "object-earth"
  2. If potential energy mgh belongs to system "object-earth", so why textbook often say that mgh is potential energy only belongs to object ? I am so confused about this problem. Hope that you can help me about this thing
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  • $\begingroup$ Are you with the mechanical work equation $W =\Delta PE+\Delta KE$ $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 31, 2022 at 14:31
  • $\begingroup$ it is total energy of object and my textbook said that it is equal to mechanical energy + internal energy $\endgroup$
    – abcxyzklmn
    Commented Oct 31, 2022 at 14:35
  • $\begingroup$ The term $\Delta PE$ accounts for the energy change (work done) by gravity. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 31, 2022 at 14:54
  • $\begingroup$ Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it's hard to tell exactly what you're asking. $\endgroup$
    – Community Bot
    Commented Oct 31, 2022 at 15:40

3 Answers 3

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Indeed, potential energy belongs to the object-earth system. You can see that quite clearly. In this case $PE = mgh$ where $h$ is the height. Think about that, the height determines the potential energy and the height specifies a relationship between the earth and the object. In other words, the height is a configuration (a degree of freedom) of the earth-object system.

If potential energy mgh belongs to system "object-earth", so why textbook often say that mgh is potential energy only belongs to object?

Because usually in the systems that you are analyzing for introductory physics the distinction doesn't matter. Usually you can "get away" with the fiction that it belongs to the object. In your analysis:

If potential energy mgh only belongs to object, so its energy is E = PE + KE + U according to the law of conservation of energy, we have: ΔE = ΔPE + ΔKE + ΔU = Wg + Q but Wg = 2102 = 40(J) and Q = 0 (because there is no friction between air and object) and ΔPE + ΔKE = 0 so ΔU = 40(J), so its internal energy changed (?)

But this is not correct. As you said $\Delta E = \Delta PE + \Delta KE + \Delta U$ so $\Delta PE = -40 \mathrm{\ J}$ and $\Delta KE = 40 \mathrm{\ J}$ and $\Delta E = 0 = \Delta U$, there is no change in internal energy. In your analysis you were double-counting the force of gravity. You were counting it both as a change in the object's PE and also as work. You have to pick one or the other, not both.

So in your analysis it is OK to count the potential energy as belonging to the object if you are careful to not double count. There are later cases where that isn't the case and you must count the PE as belonging to the earth-object system. Specifically, when you use a reference frame where the Earth is moving. As a result, I prefer to think of it as belonging to the earth-object system even when you can get away with treating it as belonging to the object alone. That way your analysis can be consistent without regards to whether or not the Earth is moving.

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    $\begingroup$ tks you a lot for helping me, finally i could understand this $\endgroup$
    – abcxyzklmn
    Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 14:14
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You do not consider the kinetic energy ? $mgh=m/2v^2$ so either your mass jumps back to h, or the kinetic energy ist transformed in warmth and the mass destroyed. In the moment before collision with earth it is true $ ΔPE + ΔKE = 0$ but $ -ΔPE = ΔKE $ so in the system earth-object, the object looses PE and gains KE.

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so why textbook often say that mgh is potential energy only belongs to object ?

Unfortunately you will more often than not hear it said that an object has potential energy. But it is technically incorrect. Potential energy of any form (e.g., gravitational, electrical, elastic) is a system property related to the positional relationship of objects, not a property of single object.

For example, what would be the gravitational potential energy (GPE) in your example if the earth (and all other gravitational bodies potentially exerting a force on the object) were to suddenly disappear? GPE only has meaning for a system of two or more gravitating bodies, not a single body.

On the other hand, consider at some instant during the fall when the object has a velocity of $v$ and therefore KE of $\frac{1}{2}mv^2$, as measured by some observer in space. If the earth were to suddenly disappear what would its velocity and KE be? It will continue to move with constant velocity $v$ with KE of $\frac{1}{2}mv^2$.

  1. If potential energy mgh only belongs to object, so its energy is E = PE + KE + U according to the law of conservation of energy, we have: ΔE = ΔPE + ΔKE + ΔU = Wg + Q but Wg = 2102 = 40(J) and Q = 0 (because there is no friction between air and object) and ΔPE + ΔKE = 0 so ΔU = 40(J), so its internal energy changed (?)

In order to talk about gravitational potential energy we need to define the system as the combination of the earth and the falling object, i.e., the earth-object system. We will also need to consider the system for two cases: 1. While the object is falling (prior to impact with the earth) and 2. After coming to a stop due to impact with the earth.

Case 1: While object is falling

If we can consider the earth-object system to be an isolated system (meaning we need to ignore the gravitational effects, electromagnetic radiation, etc. associated with interactions with other celestial bodies) then the change in total energy of the earth-object system is zero, or $\Delta E=0$. Then,

$$\Delta KE +\Delta PE +\Delta U=0$$

It is important to understand the difference between a change in internal energy, $\Delta U$ and mechanical energy, $\Delta KE$ and $\Delta PE$ . Internal energy is the kinetic and potential energy of the motions of, and forces between, the atoms and molecules of the system (of our object and the earth). The mechanical KE and PE is that of the motion of the object as a whole and its position as a whole with respect to the earth.

For example, if there were air resistance, the friction between the air and object would result in an increase in the temperature of the object (increase in the KE of its molecules). That increases the internal energy of the object at the expense of a loss the kinetic energy of the object as a whole, for conservation of energy.

Since your example does not involve frictional forced while the object is falling, and the earth-object system is assumed to be isolated we have both $\Delta E=0$ and $\Delta U=0$, and we are left with conservation of mechanical energy, or

$$\Delta KE+\Delta PE=0$$

Case 2: Object impacts earth

Let's assume that when the object impacts the earth it comes to a stop imbedded in the earth. All of its mechanical energy KE just prior to impact is mow lost in the inelastic collision. The work done by the earth in stopping the object is internal to the earth object system. The impact results in an increase in the internal energy (molecular KE and PE) of the earth-object system. The earth object system is still isolated ($\Delta E=0$) and the result of the impact is

$$\Delta U=+40 J$$

Conclusion:

So you are correct that $\Delta U=+40 J$, but it is only correct following the impact when the object comes to a stop (case 2). In effect, the loss of gravitational potential energy the earth-object system had before the fall equals the increase in internal energy of the earth-object system at the conclusion of the fall.

However, before the impact (case 1) $\Delta U=0$ and $\Delta PE+\Delta KE$=0.

Hope this helps.

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  • $\begingroup$ thanks you a lot $\endgroup$
    – abcxyzklmn
    Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 14:15

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