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Consider the interaction Lagrangians given by

\begin{align*} \mathcal{L}_1 = A_\mu \ \pi^{0} \ \partial^{\mu} \pi^{0}\\ \mathcal{L}_2 = B^{\mu\nu} \ \partial_\mu \pi^{0} \partial_{\nu} \pi^{0}\\ \mathcal{L}_3 = C_{\nu} \ \ \partial_\mu \pi^{0} \partial^\mu \pi^0 \partial^{\nu} \pi^{0} \end{align*}

My question concerns finding the vertex rules for the amputated diagrams corresponding to these interactions (I don't care about $A,B,C$ I just added them for Lorentz invariance).

Notation: I will use $\stackrel{FT}{=}$ to mean "corresponds to the momentum space interaction", and $\sim$ to mean "corresponds to the vertex rule".


Suppose that all the $\pi^0$ are all exiting the vertex and that $A,B,C$ are incident. We use the sign convention where the Feynman rule for outgoing momenta is $-ip_\mu$.

Then naively, we obtain (again, I don't care about $A,B,C$)

\begin{align*} \mathcal{L}_1 &\stackrel{FT}{=} (-ip^\pi_\mu) A^\mu \pi^0 \pi^0 \ \sim \ A^\mu (-ip^\pi_\mu) \\ \mathcal{L}_2 &\stackrel{FT}{=} (-ip^\pi_{1 \mu})(-ip^\pi_{2\nu}) B^{\mu\nu} \pi^0 \pi^0 \ \sim\ B^{\mu\nu}(-ip^\pi_{1 \mu})(-ip^\pi_{2\nu}) \\ \mathcal{L}_3 &\stackrel{FT}{=} (-ip^\pi_{1\mu})(-ip^\pi_{2\mu})(-ip^\pi_{3\nu}) C^\nu \pi^0 \pi^0 \pi^0 \ \sim \ C^\nu(-ip^\pi_{1\mu})(-ip^\pi_{2\mu})(-ip^\pi_{3\nu}) \end{align*}

However, since the $\pi^0$ are identical the vertex rules should be symmetric under their exchange so shouldn't momenta be symmetrized? That is, shouldn't we have that

\begin{align*} \mathcal{L}_1 &\sim A^\mu (-i)(p^\pi_{1\mu} + p^\pi_{2\mu}) \\ \mathcal{L}_2 &\sim B^{\mu\nu}(-i)^2\bigg[p^\pi_{1 \mu}p^\pi_{2\nu} + p^\pi_{2 \mu} p^\pi_{1\nu}\bigg]\\ \mathcal{L}_3 & \sim C^\nu (-i)^3\bigg[ p^\pi_{1\mu}p^\pi_{2\mu} +p^\pi_{2\mu}p^\pi_{3\mu} +p^\pi_{1\mu}p^\pi_{3\mu} \bigg]\bigg[ p^\pi_{1\nu} + p^\pi_{2\nu} + p^\pi_{3\nu} \bigg] \end{align*}

I'm about to get involved in a long, nasty computation so I just wanted to make sure.

Additionally, do I need to add any additional symmetry factors when performing the symmetrization of momenta? My intuition is telling me that I should add a factor $1/n!$ to $\mathcal{L}_n$ but I'm not sure.

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  • $\begingroup$ Yes, it has to be symmetrized. The general way to do this kind of thing is to go back to Wick's theorem and contractions; that also reliably pops out the normalization factor. You can find similar examples on pages 354 and 507 of Peskin. $\endgroup$
    – knzhou
    Commented Dec 19, 2020 at 21:05
  • $\begingroup$ Thanks, a bunch. Yea, I just didn't want to have to go through wick's theorem or expand the path integral. Isn't there usually a symmetry argument from which you can determine the normalization factor? Like an $S_n$ symmetry gets a $1/n!$ factor $\endgroup$ Commented Dec 19, 2020 at 21:07
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    $\begingroup$ There is, but I really think Wick's theorem is the fastest and most reliable way. Before I got used to it, I would get burned all the time trying to write it down from symmetry. For example, I think your third vertex needs a $1/2$ factor, not a $1/6$ factor, because it's only the two $\phi$'s with derivatives that can be interchanged. But I wouldn't bet any money on that. $\endgroup$
    – knzhou
    Commented Dec 19, 2020 at 21:12
  • $\begingroup$ Okay, great thanks again. Guess i'll have to find the factors by hand then $\endgroup$ Commented Dec 19, 2020 at 21:14

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