3
$\begingroup$

This is one of those problems that I thought would be easy, then spent forever on it and realized that I know nothing:

A rigid rod of uniform density has mass $M$ and length $L$ and is free to rotate about its center without a fixed axis. Consider its center to be fixed at the origin of an inertial Cartesian coordinate system, and note that the position of the rod can be specified with the spherical coordinate angles $\theta$ and $\phi$. (Also assume zero gravity.)

  1. What is the Lagrangian of this system, in terms of the coordinates $\theta$ and $\phi$?

First, I calculated the moments of inertia for rotation in the pure $\theta$ and pure $\phi$ directions. For $\theta$, this is the usual $\frac{1}{12}ML^2$, but $\phi$ it becomes $\frac{1}{12}ML^2\sin^2\theta$ assuming the rod is held at fixed $\theta$. Then I used $K_{rot}=\frac{1}{2}I\omega^2$ for each type of rotation and added the two:

$$\begin{align} L &= K-U \\ &= K_\theta+K_\phi-0 \\&= \frac{1}{24} M L^2\dot\theta^2+ \frac{1}{24} M L^2\sin^2(\theta) \,\,\dot\phi^2 \end{align}$$

My main concern is that adding the two energies doesn't seem justified, so my next question is:

  1. If this is correct, why is adding these two energies justified?

To emphasize the concern, consider this: pure $\theta$-rotation corresponds to $\vec\omega$ in one direction, while pure $\phi$-rotation corresponds to $\vec\omega$ in another direction. These two vectors span only a plane, whereas in general $\vec\omega$ could point anywhere in 3D space, so it isn't at all clear that these angular coordinates simply "add" in a straightforward way.

Trying to find the answer more rigorously, I calculated the inertia tensor (assuming at time $t=0$ the rod is lying in the $z$-$x$ plane) and tried to use $K_{rot}=\frac{1}{2}\vec\omega \cdot (\tilde{I} \vec\omega)$. This leads to my final and most deceptively difficult question:

  1. What is $\vec\omega$ in terms of $\theta$, $\dot\theta$, $\phi$, and $\dot\phi$?

Also if there is a cleaner or more straighforward approach for solving this problem, I'd love to know about it!

$\endgroup$
4
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ I can't recall the answers to your questions. But I do know an observation that leads to one way on answering your questions: by using a rotated coordinate system you can force $\theta' = \frac{\pi}{2}$ and make it a 2D problem with a Lagrangian that depends only on $\dot{\phi}'$. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 5, 2018 at 20:48
  • $\begingroup$ But you can't guarantee $\theta'$ will stay $\frac{\pi}{2}$, so it doesn't necessarily reduce to 2D. One possible solution to the motion is "simple" 2D rotation where the endpoints trace out a great circle on the sphere accessible to them, but that isn't the only solution to the equations of motion. (At least I think so... this was part of an exam question where the follow-up was to solve for small oscillations about $\theta=\pi/2$.) $\endgroup$
    – WillG
    Commented Jun 5, 2018 at 21:55
  • $\begingroup$ Uhm ... yes. Certainly in the case of an asymmetric top. Is that still true for something as symmetric as a "uniform rod"? ::wracking brain to recall things I used to know:: $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 6, 2018 at 1:45
  • $\begingroup$ Yes, if initially $\theta=\pi/2$ and $\dot{\theta}=0$, they will stay that way. The motion is always on a plane. However, you can have a plane that is a small perturbation of the $\theta=\pi/2$ plane; that's probably what the question was asking about. $\endgroup$
    – Javier
    Commented Jun 6, 2018 at 14:33

1 Answer 1

4
$\begingroup$

We can just go back to basics, and integrate the contributions to the kinetic energy along the rod. Let the linear density be $\lambda = M/L$. The square of the velocity in spherical coordinates is

$$v^2 = \dot{r}^2 + r^2(\dot{\theta}^2 + \sin^2 \theta\, \dot{\phi}^2);$$

at all points on the rod we have $\dot{r}=0$ and that the angular part in parentheses is constant. The energy is then

$$E = \frac12 \int_{L/2}^{L/2} \lambda r^2 (\dot{\theta}^2 + \sin^2 \theta\, \dot{\phi}^2).$$

We can just take everything except $r^2$ out of the integral, and we get

$$E = \frac{1}{24} ML^2 (\dot{\theta}^2 + \sin^2 \theta\, \dot{\phi}^2)$$

so your initial guess was right. We can add the two energies because they correspond to orthogonal directions, just like in cartesian coordinates we would say $E = \frac12 m (v_x^2 + v_y^2 + v_z^2)$. You can also see that the thing in parentheses in just $\omega^2$, but hopefully this simpler derivation convinces you that everything is legitimate.

$\endgroup$
4
  • $\begingroup$ @ Javier Thanks, this is convincing. But if the object didn't have such nice symmetry, and you were given the inertia tensor instead, would the method transfer to such a case? Slightly different question I know, but I'm just curious about how this works in general. $\endgroup$
    – WillG
    Commented Jun 5, 2018 at 21:59
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @WillG Well, in the general case this would be more or less equivalent to just calculating the angular velocity. The case of the rod is a bit tricky because I think the angular velocity is not uniquely defined, since the rod doesn't care about rotations about itself. Everything should still work out as long as you take some valid angular velocity, though. $\endgroup$
    – Javier
    Commented Jun 6, 2018 at 14:30
  • $\begingroup$ Right, the non-uniqueness of $\vec\omega$ is what really vexes me. I guess this is only true because of the symmetry of a rod, and maybe this same symmetry is what leads to the same answer regardless of the choice of $\vec\omega$. $\endgroup$
    – WillG
    Commented Jun 6, 2018 at 19:04
  • $\begingroup$ @WillG that should be right, though I haven't done the math to check it. You can probably relate it to some property of the inertia tensor. $\endgroup$
    – Javier
    Commented Jun 6, 2018 at 19:05

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.