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Recently I am self-learning "Introduction to classical mechanics" by David Morin. There is a problem in chapter as stated below:

Walking east on a turntable

A person walks at constant speed $v$ eastward with respect to a turntable that rotates counterclockwise at constant frequency $ω$. Find the general expression for the person’s coordinates with respect to the ground (with the $x$-direction taken to be eastward).

Actually, I can fully understand the method used by the book but I tried to use another method to get the x-coordinate and somehow I cannot get it correct. Could anyone explain why the two methods are not coherent please?


Solution by the book

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$$\dot x=v-u\,sin\,\theta \quad... (1) $$ $$\dot y=u\,cos\,\theta\quad...(2)$$ $$u=r\omega, \,y=r\,sin\,\theta, \, x=r\,cos\,\theta\quad...(3)$$

By substituting equations (3) into (1) and (2), we get

$$\dot x=v-y\omega\quad...(4)$$ $$\dot y=x\omega\quad...(5)$$ By differentiating (4), we get $$\ddot x=-\dot y\omega\quad...(6)$$ By substituting (5) into (6), we get $$\ddot x=-\omega^{2} x\quad...(7)$$ Finally, the solution of (7) is $$x=x_mcos(\omega t+\phi)$$ To cater for easy comparison, I choose an initial condition "At t=0, x=0", so $$x=\frac{v}{\omega}\,cos(\omega t-\frac{\pi}{2})$$ $$x=\frac{v}{\omega}\,sin\,\omega t$$


My method

According to my knowledge, radial velocity is only contributed by component of v in alignment with the radial direction, so $$\dot r=v\,cos\,\theta$$ $$\theta=\omega t$$ By substituting and integrating both sides of the equations, $$r=\int v\,cos\,\omega t \,dt$$ $$r=\frac{v}{\omega}\,sin\,\omega t$$ Finally, $$x=r\,cos\,\omega t=\frac{v}{\omega}\,sin\,\omega t\,cos\,\omega t$$


x-coordinate by the book method: $x=\frac{v}{\omega}\,sin\,\omega t$

x-coordinate by my method: $x=r\,cos\,\omega t=\frac{v}{\omega}\,sin\,\omega t\,cos\,\omega t$

Here, we can see that my answer has an extra cosine function inside. Can anyone explain to me what I did wrong in this question? Thank you so much!


Edit 1 (15th August) I have made a mistake in assuming $\theta=\omega t\; (or\, \dot \theta=\omega)$. The correct expressions are

$$\dot \theta=\omega -\frac{v}{r}sin\,\theta$$ $$\dot r=v\,cos\theta$$

May I know is there anyway that I could use to solve r(t) and $\theta (t)$ without using cartesian coordinates?

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  • $\begingroup$ If the person is walking from the center towards the edge of the platform, shouldn't x spiral but eventually increase with time? I'm not asking about your solution, even the textbook solution confuses me. Also, in equation 3 you write that v= r omega... but isn't v the walking velocity? r omega is the angular velocity of the disk which has nothing to do with the walking speed, no? $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 14, 2023 at 16:26
  • $\begingroup$ " eastward with respect to a turntable " I do not understand. Eastward is only defined in terms of the ground reference frame, so to me the persons coordinates are just $x = v t$ and the motion of the turnable plays no role here. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 14, 2023 at 22:38
  • $\begingroup$ @P.C.Spaniel Sorry for the typo! It should be u = r omega. The trajectory is seemingly spiral because you imagined that the person can escape from the turntable, which is an illusion (I guess). If you think of a turntable with infinitively large radius, then you can easily imagine that the person cannot escape from the turntable and he will have a circular path on the table instead. $\endgroup$
    – Tom2023
    Commented Aug 15, 2023 at 1:40
  • $\begingroup$ @JohnAlexiou I guess the question means that the person is moving to the east at whatever point on the turntable. $\endgroup$
    – Tom2023
    Commented Aug 15, 2023 at 2:23
  • $\begingroup$ My confusion arose because the sentence "A person walks at constant speed v eastward with respect to a turntable" made me think that the personis walking east relative to the turntable. In other words: If we define comoving axis x' and y' that start align with the inertial frame on the ground and then start rotating, I thought that the person was moving with constant speed in x'. That would mean that from their point of view they are walking on a straight line through the turntable. However, the person is actually moving east relative to the inertial frame! $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 15, 2023 at 14:41

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Your statement

$\theta = \omega t$

is incorrect. When $\theta \neq 0,180$ then some of his "eastward" walking contributes to the angular velocity, namely $\dot{\theta} = \omega t + \frac{v}{r}\sin\theta$

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  • $\begingroup$ Oh! I understand it now but I guess you should be writing 𝜃 dot = 𝜔 - 𝑣/𝑟 sin𝜃 ? If that's the case, is that anyway that I can use to find expression of r without using the cartesian coordinates? Thx! $\endgroup$
    – Tom2023
    Commented Aug 15, 2023 at 2:00

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