1
$\begingroup$

We were discussing coherent states for the harmonic oscillator and their observability and I still can't seem to resolve this apparent contradiction

"A very important property of a coherent state is that it 's an eigenvector of the annihilation operator a."

The annihilation operator is anti-Hermitian, so its eigenvalues are imaginary, so the corresponding eigenvectors will at best be complex, right? So that means a isn't an observable, which we understand from last week, but aren't coherent states observable? They're the states which most closely resemble the dynamics of the classical harmonic oscillator, so surely we can measure them; otherwise, what is the point in distinguishing them? So how can it be an eigenvector of a non-observable? How can an observable state be an eigenvector of a non-observable operator? What subtleties are at play here that we're blind to?

Adding to that, we know that coherent states are an eigenstate of the annihilation operator, does that imply that all anti-Hermitian operators do have some states with which they obey the eigenvalue equation?

$a|\alpha> = \alpha |\alpha>$

$\endgroup$
10
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ Observables are so called because they represent physical quantities that can be measured. Since they can be measured we assume that their values must be real. In QM this is implemented by representing observables as Hermition operators. But you talk about "measuring a state": what do you mean by that exactly? What is "an observable state"? $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 12, 2021 at 14:30
  • $\begingroup$ @MariusLadegårdMeyer What I mean by an observable state is that it is an eigenstate of a Hermitian Operator. $\endgroup$
    – Carpe
    Commented Nov 12, 2021 at 14:43
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Annihilation operator is not anti-Hermitian. $\endgroup$
    – Prahar
    Commented Nov 12, 2021 at 14:45
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Correlation functions of Hermitian operators are observable. These correlation functions can be evaluated in any state - including coherent states. We measure operators, not states. A system can be in any state, though we can only perform measurements of Hermitian operators acting on that state. $\endgroup$
    – Prahar
    Commented Nov 12, 2021 at 14:55
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ @Parvfect you can certainly measure $\langle x\rangle$ and $\langle p\rangle$ separately, then take your result and add them to find $\langle x\rangle+i\langle p\rangle$ - that is not the same as directly measuring the expectation value of an operator $x+i p$. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 12, 2021 at 17:12

2 Answers 2

4
$\begingroup$

The annihilation operator is anti-Hermitian, so its eigenvalues are imaginary

no. the annihilation operator is not Hermitian, but also not anti-Hermitian. If it were anti-Hermitian then it would maintain $a^{\dagger} = -a$ which is obviously not the case. Its eigenvalues are in general complex numbers, but they can have an imaginary part which is zero. As you see from the coherent state, $a|\alpha\rangle = \alpha |\alpha\rangle$, the eigenvalues cover all of $\mathbb{C}$.

but aren't coherent states observable?

states are not "observable" or "unobservable". This is not a terminology we use with respect to states, but rather with respect to operators. The annihilation operator by itself is not an observable, but it is comprised of two (non-commuting) observable operators - $x$ and $p$. The coherent state has a physical meaning, as you write "They're the states which most closely resemble the dynamics of the classical harmonic oscillator" which is true. But you don't measure a state but rather you measure $x$ or $p$. And indeed when you measure the behavior of $\langle x\rangle$ or $\langle p\rangle$ for the coherent state you get a classical behavior. Note that these observables are always real-valued.

$\endgroup$
3
  • $\begingroup$ However, that does not answer my question of why coherent states that have a measurable q and p that can be extracted from the eigenvalue of the annihilation operator which is not a Hermitian Operator. I still don't understand how this is possible. $\endgroup$
    – Carpe
    Commented Nov 12, 2021 at 15:05
  • 4
    $\begingroup$ I'm not sure I understand that question. Can you elaborate? just fyi: any state has a measurable $x$ and $p$ (but not both of them simultaneously, of course). that is, for any state you can calculate $\langle x \rangle$ and $\langle p \rangle$ and get real values. the coherent state is not unique in that sense $\endgroup$
    – user275556
    Commented Nov 12, 2021 at 15:13
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @yyy $x$ and $p$ can be measured simultaneously: they cannot be measured simultaneously to arbitrary precision, i.e such that both $\Delta x$ and $\Delta p$ go to $0$. In fact joint measurements of $x$ and $p$ must satisfy $\Delta x\Delta p\ge\hbar$, i.e. twice the lower bound for the product $\Delta x\Delta p$ of measurements of $x$ and $p$ done separately. The lower bound for joint measurement is reached when both the state and the detector are separately prepared in coherent states with identical parameter $\alpha$. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 14, 2021 at 15:42
0
$\begingroup$

States are not observable, and neither are the real or imaginary. For instance the state \begin{align} \vert\psi\rangle =\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\vert +\rangle + \frac{i}{\sqrt{2}}\vert -\rangle \end{align} is an eigenstate of $\sigma_y$ in the basis where $\sigma_z$ is diagonal. It is clearly neither real nor imaginary.

$\hat a$ or $\hat a^\dagger$ aren’t hermitian or anti hermitian either. In fact, thinking of a coherent state as an eigenstate of $\hat a$ is not terribly useful physically precisely because $\hat a$ isn’t hermitian (and thus not an observable). Greater physical insight (and mathematical flexibility) is gained by thinking of coherent states harmonic oscillator ground states that have been translated in the $x-p$ plane so that $\langle x\rangle =\text{Re}({\alpha})$ and $\langle p\rangle=\text{Im}(\alpha)$. Of course they satisfy the uncertainty relation $\Delta x\Delta p=\hbar$ so systems described by a coherent state do not have definite position or momentum. (The idea of coherent states for operators other than $\hat x$ and $\hat p$, and thus for operators other than $\hat a$ and $\hat a^\dagger$, is based on the definition of coherent states as translates of a suitable “ground state”.)

Coherent states can certainly be “easily” produced in the lab: if $\vert n\rangle$ denotes a state containing $n$ photons, then the probability distribution of photons in a coherent state is precisely the probability distribution of photons in a laser (up to technicalities on operations of the laser). Of course both $\vert n\rangle$ and $e^{i\varphi_n}\vert n \rangle$ have the same probability distributions but are distinct states if the phase $\varphi_n$ depends on $n$, so an argument about the probability distribution is not complete, but still because of their classical properties coherent states are an every day experimental tool in quantum optics.

$\endgroup$
4
  • $\begingroup$ Coherent states are mathematically defined to be eigenstates of the annihilation operator, which confused me as only Hermitian operators usually had such equations. However, if one is to say that these eigenvalues then are not real valued and not indicating a measurement then the problem goes away. Yet the eigenvalue can give us a value for both alpha and the phase from which we can extract both the position and momentum to minimum uncertainty (since these are coherent states). How does this end result differ from making an actual measurement in the quantum world using any Hermitian Operators? $\endgroup$
    – Carpe
    Commented Nov 14, 2021 at 14:49
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ One (and only one) definition of coherent states is as an eigenstate of an annihilation operator. This definition does not work in finite dimensional space, hence the definition in terms of translates of a ground state. The fact that $\hat a$ is not hermitian but has an eigenvalue does not imply anything about eigenvalues of $\hat a\pm \hat a^\dagger$ since these operators do not commute. Again… one easily shows that $\hat x$ has non-zero variance in this state, and thus the coherent state does not have a well-defined value of $\hat x$ or $\hat p$. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 14, 2021 at 14:58
  • $\begingroup$ Hermiticity aside, the eigenstates of $\hat\sigma_z$ do not have a well-defined value of the observables $\hat \sigma_z\pm \hat \sigma_y$. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 14, 2021 at 15:03
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ My point is that you are thinking of the coherent state (for a harmonic oscillator) in the most confusing way possible because you're thinking of it as an eigenstate of a non-hermitian operator. Translating the h.o. ground state using a unitary transformation is much more productive and avoids any confusion: it's then clear that $\langle x\rangle$, $\langle p\rangle$ are just shifted from their ground state values, and that $\Delta x^2$ and $\Delta p^2$ are not $0$ in either case. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 14, 2021 at 15:31

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.