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Quoting the first sentence of the first postulate on wiki:

The electron is able to revolve in certain stable orbits around the nucleus without radiating any energy, contrary to what classical electromagnetism suggests. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_model#Origin)

My problem is the "contrary to what classical electromagnetism suggest" part. First, i think, if that part was not true, there would be no justification to introduce that postulate in the first place.

And, yes, I do think that the quoted part is not true which, as just said, means there is no foundation/necessatiy for the postulate.

So: Classical electrodynamics predicts that only a time changing current will give rise to radiation. The fastest way to see this, is to take Maxwells equations and go the way to the wave equation for the electrical field, and dont drop J and P on the way. The result will be that you get the simple wave equation but with a source term due to the time derivative of the current (dJ/dt and d²P/dt²). So: The source of electromagnetic waves are transient (temporally not constant) currents. Currents that are constant over time dont matter.

I think that solely from a classical perspective there is no reason to assume that electrons have to produce a transient current and thus would radiate. To decide if it has to radiate or not, would need information about the classical electron charge distribution and its time dependence. That the electron has (or is associated with) some sort of classical charge distribution is also a very old idea and quite within the classical picture.

From Schrödingers equation (for which we don't need Bohrs postulate too) we finally get detailed information about some distribution associated with the electron. Even interpreting the |Eigenstates|^2 classically as charge distributions, they wont correspond to a time changing current. Even when superimposing several Eigenstates the current should be constant (i think, not rigorously done yet though)

So why is Bohrs postulate still teached besides for historical perspective? You might say it is teached solely for historical perspective, but I think it's not done in the right way (assuming what I claim is correct) since I was never told what I just wrote here (and to be honest I was afraid to ask my profs)

tldr: I think that Bohrs postulate (1st) is based on a false assumption and thus not necessary, but maybe I'm missing something important here. So: Is Bohrs postulate necessary from classical perspective?

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    $\begingroup$ Unless you assume the classical electron to be a ring with the radius equal to the radius of the orbit, how do you not get time-variant current densities? $\endgroup$
    – user87745
    Commented May 28, 2020 at 9:54
  • $\begingroup$ Admittingly a ring is the most obvious shape (or Saturn like) I don't see why could assume that this is the only shape. I mean you can take literally any piece of metal, shaped as you want, and send some weirdly shaped constant current through it, or not? $\endgroup$
    – hagebutte
    Commented May 28, 2020 at 10:08
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    $\begingroup$ @hagebutte How is that in any way similar to an electron moving around in a circle, though? $\endgroup$ Commented May 28, 2020 at 10:08
  • $\begingroup$ You're now talking about case where you have multiple charge carriers. That's completely different. $\endgroup$
    – user87745
    Commented May 28, 2020 at 10:09
  • $\begingroup$ No the piece of metal is just an analogy. I'm - in the spirit of classical electrodynamics - refering to the electron as a charge distribution. $\endgroup$
    – hagebutte
    Commented May 28, 2020 at 10:21

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A classical electron is a point charge, or at best a sphere the size of the classical electron radius. A point charge (or small sphere) moving in a circle does not constitute a steady current. For a point charge moving in a circle of radius $R$ centered at the origin in the $xy$-plane, the current is given by:

$$I(x,y,z,t)=\delta(R\sin(\omega t),R\cos(\omega t),z)$$

where $\delta$ is the 3-dimensional Dirac delta function:

$$\delta(x,y,z)=\begin{cases}\infty&\text{if }x=y=z=0\\0&\text{otherwise}\end{cases}$$

where $\infty$ is here defined such that:

$$\iiint_{\mathbb{R}^3}\delta(x,y,z)=1$$

As you can see, if you look at any particular point along the electron's path, the current will be very much not constant. Take, for example, the point $(R,0,0)$; then the formula for $I$ at that point reduces to:

$$I(t)=\delta(\sin(\omega t))$$

which is $0$ most of the time and then $\infty$ for a moment, every time the electron revolves around.

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  • $\begingroup$ "A classical electron is a point charge" you lost me already there. As indicated in the first post, the electron as a charge distribution (however it might be shaped: a point, a hard or soft sphere or something else) is a classical picture. Classical electrodynamics, covers any kind of charge distributions. Claiming, that only when an e- is associated with very specific distributions (like tophat-sphere or dirac point) it is called classical and otherwise not, is somewhat a postulate in itself and I don't understand why one would do this restriction, nor what evidence supports this claim $\endgroup$
    – hagebutte
    Commented May 28, 2020 at 10:31
  • $\begingroup$ Of course, your calculations are perfectly correct, thats not the point. The point is, that this doesn't indicate that a postulate is necessary, it only indicates, that the electron distribution is not a dirac but a different classical charge distribution could do the job (one with J=const) $\endgroup$
    – hagebutte
    Commented May 28, 2020 at 10:37
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    $\begingroup$ @hagebutte So is your claim that the electron can change its shape depending on whether it's free or bound? It seems like this has to be the case if we simultaneously want to explain the existence of atoms and low-energy electron scattering observations (the classical explanations of the latter rely on the electron having a pointlike charge distribution). $\endgroup$ Commented May 28, 2020 at 10:59
  • $\begingroup$ @hagebutte And, if the electron can change its shape in response to electric fields, then what's preventing us from applying a strong electric field to "stretch out" the electron, then trapping some of its charge distribution on the other side of a barrier? This idea breaks quantization of charge, as far as I can tell; and the fact that the electron cannot be subdivided is a fact that predates quantum mechanics, which came in large part from the results of the Millikan oil drop experiment. $\endgroup$ Commented May 28, 2020 at 11:02
  • $\begingroup$ "So is your claim that the electron can change its shape depending [...] " I would rephrase that to: classically, the electron is (or: "is associated with" in case "is" might be too strong) a charge distribution. And, yes, of course, classical charge distributions are allowed to change. Why shouldnt they? $\endgroup$
    – hagebutte
    Commented May 28, 2020 at 11:05

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