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In his discussion (Chapter 9.2-9.3) of the measurement problem, Ballentine says "any terms [in the state operator $\rho$] that [are] nondiagonal [in terms of having "mixed projectors" $|\alpha_r\rangle\langle \alpha_s|$ where the $\alpha_i$ are macroscopic indicator variables, and so these vectors are orthogonal] would correspond to coherent superpositions of macroscopically distinct “indicator position” eigenvectors". This quote is from the bottom of page 237 in the 2nd edition.

My question is what is meant by "correspond to". Correspond how? Ballentine is uncharacteristically imprecise here. I think the crux of my issue is in wondering whether the following is true?

Theorem. Suppose that a composite system has a state operator $\rho$ which includes "cross term" projectors from an orthonormal basis (but not necessarily the entire basis). The composite system is then in a state involving a coherent superposition of these orthonormal elements. That is, some element of the state operator will arise from a $|\psi \rangle$ which is a coherent superposition of orthonormal basis states (i.e., $\rho = c_{\psi}|\psi \rangle \langle \psi| + \sum_j c_{\chi_j}|\chi_j \rangle \langle \chi|$ where the $|\chi_j \rangle$ may or may not involve coherent superpositions.

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  • $\begingroup$ There's something missing here. In the first part of your "theorem", you're talking about terms such as $|\alpha_r\rangle\langle \alpha_s |$ ($r\neq s$) in some orthonormal basis, which can even exist in single-particle (or single-degree-of-freedom) systems, so there's clearly no direct line to entanglement here, which requires multiple degrees of freedom. Can you clarify? (Are you conflating entanglement and superposition here? It seems like it, based on the first paragraph, but you're well-read enough on this stuff not to make that mistake, I think.) $\endgroup$
    – march
    Commented Aug 10, 2023 at 5:37
  • $\begingroup$ I have reread and thought about my question, and I think you are correct. Entanglement is not essential to my question (there is entanglement between object and apparatus after the unitary measurement interaction occurs, and that is what leads to the issue at hand, but the issue in the end would be an overall system+apparatus state involving a coherent superposition of states wherein the apparatus part of the kets in the superposition involve different indicator variable values). I will rewrite my question to make this clear. Thanks very much! @march $\endgroup$
    – EE18
    Commented Aug 10, 2023 at 19:07
  • $\begingroup$ I don't get the question. It does not matter whether or not $\rho$ is pure, mixed, entangled or separable; it can have off-diagonal elements (in some basis). $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 11, 2023 at 12:32
  • $\begingroup$ Essentially, I am wondering whether it is true that if a state operator has off-diagonal terms, then it involves a coherent superposition. This would confirm Ballentine's statement which he makes over and over (IIRC, Schlosshauer does too) that a state operator with nonzero off-diagonal terms "corresponds to" a coherent superposition. @TobiasFünke $\endgroup$
    – EE18
    Commented Aug 11, 2023 at 13:33
  • $\begingroup$ Sorry, I still don't get it. If you have a mixed state, it can have off-diagonals in some (orthonormal) basis, too. So why would off-diagonal terms characterize pure states at all? And "coherent superposition" is also basis dependent... $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 11, 2023 at 14:24

3 Answers 3

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Consider an orthonormal basis $|n\rangle$ (leaving aside macroscopicity of the basis states as it is not essential to this answer). Any state can be expanded as $$\rho=\sum_{mn}\rho_{mn}|m\rangle\langle n|.$$ The presence of a nonzero term $\rho_{mn}$ for $m\neq m$ implies that the state has a "coherence" in this basis. This can be inspected by computing the overlap of the state with the pure superposition state $$|m,n;\phi\rangle\equiv \frac{|m\rangle+e^{i\phi}|n\rangle}{\sqrt{2}}.$$ We look for the maximum overlap over all $\phi$, in case $\rho_{mn}=\rho_{nm}^*$ is complex: $$O(m,n;\rho)\equiv\max_\phi \langle m,n;\phi|\rho|m,n,\phi\rangle=\max_\phi \frac{\rho_{mn}e^{i\phi}+\rho_{nm}e^{-i\phi}+\rho_{mm}+\rho_{nn}}{2}=|\rho_{mn}|+\frac{\rho_{mm}+\rho_{nn}}{2}.$$ Positivity of the density matrix ($|\rho_{mn}|^2\leq \rho_{mm}\rho_{nn}$) implies that maximum overlap $O(m,n;\rho)$ is itself maximized for a state $\rho$ that is exactly equal to $|m,n;\phi\rangle$. Rewriting our expression as $|\rho_{mn}|=O(m,n;\rho)-\frac{\rho_{mm}+\rho_{nn}}{2}$, this means that [the state's overlap with a pure, equal-magnitude superposition of the two basis states in question] minus [the average probability of finding the state in either of the basis states] tells us [the magnitude of the coefficient of the off-diagonal element], and vice versa. If $|\rho_{mn}|=1/2$, the state must actually be a pure state of the form $|m,n;\phi\rangle$ (because $|\rho_{mn}|^2\leq \rho_{mm}\rho_{nn}$ by positivity and $\rho_{mm} \rho_{nn}\leq 1$ by normalization mean that $|\rho_{mn}|=1/2$ implies $\rho_{mm} =\rho_{nn}= 1/2$, which mean that $\rho_{ii}=0$ for $i\neq m,n$, which mean that $\rho_{ij}= 0$ for $i\neq m,n$, which mean that the density matrix only has support over the $2\times 2$ subspace, and you can check that it must be pure... you'll never see a density matrix with an off-diagonal elements greater than $1/2$, in any basis). If $0<|\rho_{mn}|\leq 1/2$, we know that there is some contribution to the state by a state of the form of $|m,n;\phi\rangle$ but that contribution may be small.

Did we prove that such a contribution must be there? Not quite, but remember we can always express $\rho$ in any basis we choose. Let's keep the original basis but change two of the basis states, $|m\rangle$ and $|n\rangle$, to $|m,n;\phi\rangle$ and $|m,n;\pi+\phi\rangle$, where the latter two are still orthonormal. Let's further choose $\phi$ to be the angle that achieves the maximum above. The probability of finding the state in either of the two new basis states is the same as the probability of finding it in either of the two old basis states, $\rho_{mm}+\rho_{nn}$. In this basis, $O(m,n;\rho)$ is exactly the expansion coefficient for the state $|m,n;\phi\rangle\langle m,n;\phi|$ and the contribution from $|m,n;\pi+\phi\rangle\langle m,n;\pi+\phi|$ is the same but with a change of sign: $-|\rho_{mn}|+\frac{\rho_{mm}+\rho_{nn}}{2}$. So we can always find a basis in which the pure superposition state features, given that $O(m,n;\rho)\neq 0$. But wait, that can be nonzero even if $|\rho_{mn}|=0$, so long as there is a nonzero probability of finding the state in either $|m\rangle$ or $|n\rangle$, because $\rho_{mm}+\rho_{nn}>0$ in that case! And we should have anticipated that, because the identity matrix can be written in any basis and have contributions from any projector we want. What's special in the $|\rho_{mn}|>0$ case is that the overlap of the state with $|m,n;\phi\rangle$ is greater than the overlap with $|m,n;\phi+\pi\rangle$ $\rho_{mn}\neq 0$. In our new basis, the bigger the difference between these [diagonal] components, the greater the value of $|\rho_{mn}|$ and thus the greater the contribution of the pure superposition state $|m,n;\phi\rangle$. What is really cool is that the maximum contribution can only come by another contribution being zero. For a state to be really pure and have a large contribution from $|m,n;\phi\rangle$, it must have a small contribution from $|m,n;\phi+\pi\rangle$ and vice versa.


Now let's briefly return to macroscopicity (macroscopicness?) and quantumness. If two states $|m\rangle$ and $|n\rangle$ are macroscopically distinguishable (i.e., if they correspond to two states that are very different like a light switch being on and off), then the size of the component $|\rho_{mn}|$ tells us something about how much of a macroscopic superposition is present in the state. There are many, many different ways in the literature of quantifying this coherence, specifically because it depends on the basis you choose, but everyone will agree that a large $|\rho_{mn}|$ means a large contribution to the state from a superposition of macroscopically distinguishable states.


Summary and addition: a nonzero term $\rho_{mn}$ for $m\neq n$ implies the state has a nonzero overlap with some state of the form $|m,n;\phi\rangle$ and thus can be expressed as $\rho=O |m,n;\phi\rangle \langle m,n;\phi|+(1-O)\rho^\prime$ for some $\rho^\prime$. But a state of the latter form does not necessarily have coherence, because it could be the maximally mixed state (for example). Instead of nebulously defining coherence in terms of the off-diagonal elements, we should look to the origins of the term. In interferometry, coherence of your signal means your signal oscillates in a stable manner with respect to some reference oscillator. Here, the interference comes about if we look at the overlap between our state and some state $|m,n;\phi\rangle$, with the result (as calculated before) $O(m,n;\phi;\rho)=\langle m,n;\phi|\rho|m,n;\phi\rangle=\Re(\rho_{mn}e^{i\phi})+\frac{\rho_{mm}+\rho_{nn}}{2},$ with $\Re$ signifying the real part. The quality of the interference signal is dictated by the amplitude of the oscillation relative to the average value of the signal, which is known as the interference visibility: $$V=\frac{\max_\phi O(m,n;\phi;\rho)-\min_\phi O(m,n;\phi;\rho)}{\max_\phi O(m,n;\phi;\rho)+\min_\phi O(m,n;\phi;\rho)}=\frac{|\rho_{mn}|}{\rho_{mm}+\rho_{nn}}.$$ Visibility greater than zero is what we refer to as coherence and that is why the off-diagonal element signifies coherence. The reason this is considered basis dependent is because we are using $|m,n;\phi\rangle$ as our reference. In a double-slit experiment, the two states in superposition are the paths that the photon takes to get to the final screen, and the oscillations are of the intensity detected with respect to spatial position or of the electric field with time. The only state that is coherent in no basis is the maximally mixed state, coherence is unambiguous in a $2\times 2$ system, and for anything else people can only agree that there exists nonzero coherence with respect to a particular basis.

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  • $\begingroup$ Thank you for this lovely answer. There are many elements which elude me, and I will need to read it again tomorrow morning. If it's OK, I'll ask some questions at that point. My initial intuition is that this does solve my problem, and it's very interesting to see the problem of preferred basis raised at the end. $\endgroup$
    – EE18
    Commented Aug 15, 2023 at 4:56
  • $\begingroup$ This is a superb and very slick answer it seems, and at a first glance it seems to encode everything I'd like to know. However, some of it was a bit too quick for me, so I hope you'll bear with me while I ask a few clarification questions: (1) I follow your calculation and discussion up to "Positivity of the density matrix...". What do you mean when you say "his is maximized by $\rho$ being exactly equal to $|m,n;\phi\rangle$"? $\rho$ is fixed right, we aren't maximizing with respect to it? I do follow that the maximum $|m,n;\phi\rangle$... $\endgroup$
    – EE18
    Commented Aug 15, 2023 at 18:27
  • $\begingroup$ ... given the $\rho$ corresponds to $\phi = -\theta$, where $\theta$ is the phase of $\rho_{mn}$. (2) Also, you write "This means that [the magnitude of the coefficient of the off-diagonal element] minus [the average probability of finding the state in either of the basis states] tells us how much the state overlaps with a pure, equal-magnitude superposition of the two basis states in question." Do you mean plus rather than minus? (3) You write that $|\rho_{mn} = 1/2$ means $\rho$ is pure and so on...why is this? Can you flesh this out a touch more as I can't see it. $\endgroup$
    – EE18
    Commented Aug 15, 2023 at 18:29
  • $\begingroup$ (4) You write "The probability of finding the state in either of the two new basis states is the same as the probability of finding it in either of the two old basis states". Is this because the change of basis you give is just a rotation in this 2D subspace, so we have the same projection operator onto this subspace $|m\rangle\langle m |+ |n\rangle\langle n | = |m,n;\pi+\phi\rangle\langle m,n;\pi+\phi| + |m,n;\phi\rangle\langle m,n;\phi|$? But this then means I don't understand your... $\endgroup$
    – EE18
    Commented Aug 15, 2023 at 19:04
  • $\begingroup$ ...next sentence "In this basis, $\rho_{mn}$ is exactly the expansion coefficient for the state $|m,n;\phi\rangle\langle m,n;\phi|$ and there is no contribution from $|m,n;\pi+\phi\rangle\langle m,n;\pi+\phi$"? How is this? I would have expected the equality $\rho_{mm} + \rho_{nn} = (|\rho_{mn}|+\frac{\rho_{mm}+\rho_{nn}}{2}) + (-|\rho_{mn}|+\frac{\rho_{mm}+\rho_{nn}}{2})$, where that last term is the $|m,n;\pi+\phi\rangle\langle m,n;\pi+\phi$ contribution? $\endgroup$
    – EE18
    Commented Aug 15, 2023 at 19:06
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After reading the comments, I want to make an answer based on what I think the question is asking. I hope this would be useful. Consider a set of states $\{ \psi_i \}$ and two density matrices:

$$ \rho_1 = \sum_i p_i \vert \psi_i \rangle \langle \psi_i \vert, \hspace{0.5 cm} \rho_2 = \vert \psi \rangle \langle \psi \vert$$

where $\psi$ is some linear combination of the basis states. Now even though $\vert \psi \rangle$ is some linear combination of states $\rho_2$ is a pure density state, whereas $\rho_1$ is not. The mathematical reason is that $\rho_2$ is a rank 1 operator which means the dimension of the image of the operator. From the definition, it is easy to deduce this fact by writing the matrices out in this basis:

$$ \rho_1 = \begin{bmatrix} p_1 & 0 & \dots & 0 \\ 0 & p_2 & \dots & 0 \\ \vdots & \vdots & \ddots & \vdots \\ 0 & 0 & \dots & p_N \end{bmatrix}, \hspace{0.5 cm} \rho_2 = \begin{bmatrix} 0 & 0 & \dots & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & \dots & 0 \\ \vdots & \vdots & \ddots & \vdots \\ 0 & 0 & \dots & 1 \end{bmatrix}$$

It is now clear $\rho_2^2 = \rho_2$. The upshot of this argument is that $\textbf{if}$ a pure density matrix is written in a basis where it's diagonal, there must be one entry in the diagonal entry. Transforming to this to another state will induce off-diagonal elements which causes the quantumness. However, if there are more than 1 non-zero entries in a diagonal basis, it must be a mixed density operator which encapsulates our classical uncertainty.

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  • $\begingroup$ I’ll have to think about it, but I’m not sure this answers my question. I am asking a converse of what you’ve shown here; I am asking “if I have off-diagonal nonzero entries in some orthonormality basis, does there exist a decomposition of that state operator which includes a projector term that is a coherent superposition of these orthonormality basis vectors”? $\endgroup$
    – EE18
    Commented Aug 14, 2023 at 22:24
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Let $|\psi \rangle$ = $\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}|0\rangle + \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}|1\rangle$, and choose the the orthonormal basis $|0\rangle, |1\rangle$. Then $|\psi \rangle $ is clearly not entangled but $| \psi \rangle \langle \psi |$ has off-diagonal terms. I think Ballentine is just making the simple observation that if we fix a basis and represent a density matrix in this basis, then the off-diagonal terms signify that there is some superposition in this basis.

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  • $\begingroup$ It is my fault, but as per the discussion with March, my fixation on entanglement was misguided. Hopefully my newly phrased question makes sense. Sorry for the mistake here! $\endgroup$
    – EE18
    Commented Aug 10, 2023 at 20:13
  • $\begingroup$ In this case the state still does not need to be pure, for instance $\rho = \frac{I}{2} + |\psi \rangle \langle \psi |$ has off diagonal terms. $\endgroup$
    – r_phys
    Commented Aug 11, 2023 at 6:13
  • $\begingroup$ I don't think I'm following then how this answers, so perhaps you can let me know. I am wondering whether it is true that if a state operator has off-diagonal terms, then it involves a coherent superposition. I think you may be showing some sort of converse here? $\endgroup$
    – EE18
    Commented Aug 11, 2023 at 13:30
  • $\begingroup$ You asked whether it is true that if a state has off-diagonal terms, it is a pure state in a superposition, which is not true in general $\endgroup$
    – r_phys
    Commented Aug 15, 2023 at 3:58
  • $\begingroup$ I disagree, or at least apologize if that's how it was interpreted because of my lack of clarity (which march clarified for me). I simply asked if there is a decomposition wherein there exists a projector which is a coherent superposition of states. $\endgroup$
    – EE18
    Commented Aug 15, 2023 at 4:54

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