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What is the potential energy for a large spring that is bent into an arbitrary shape? The solution should be of the form $V=\int (...) ds $


EDIT:

I have reduced this problem to the problem of the 2D elastica, or a bent elastic rod (no stretching or twisting). (Following Equation 10 in https://www2.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2008/EECS-2008-103.pdf and many other sources):

The energy for this system is $$E[\theta(s)] = \int_0^Lds \frac1{R^2} =\int_0^Lds \left(\frac{d \theta}{ds}\right)^2 \tag{1}$$

Where $R$ is the radius of curvature, $R d\theta = ds$.

Varying the energy using Euler-Lagrange equations gives $\frac{d\theta}{ds}=constant$. This means the solution is just some section of a circle. This can't be right and does not allow for a positional boundary condition on the endpoint.

To fix this issue, consider Equation 22 of https://www2.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2008/EECS-2008-103.pdf, which seems to be the form of energy I am looking for, and allows for two additional positional boundary conditions for the endpoint.

$$\theta'' + \lambda_1 \cos(\theta) +\lambda_2 \sin(\theta)=0\tag{2}$$

An outline/resources on the solution of (2) would be appreciated (assuming this is the equation I am looking for!).

Also, (2) reduces to (1) in the limit that $\lambda_1=\lambda_2=0$. Is it ever physically meaningful to consider (1) or is (1) just a completely incorrect/meaningless equation?

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  • $\begingroup$ What is $\text{d}s$? Line element along the spring (the actual spiral)? Along the center line of the spring? $\endgroup$
    – kricheli
    Commented Jul 5, 2022 at 7:45
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    $\begingroup$ Feels like this should be similar to a beam bending problem, with more complex geometry: I.e. a "spiral beam" with circular cross-section. $\endgroup$
    – kricheli
    Commented Jul 5, 2022 at 7:50
  • $\begingroup$ I’m taking it to be along the center of the spring (the material I’m considering doesn’t have to be a spring. It could be a wire or a piece of paper) $\endgroup$
    – Mondo Duke
    Commented Jul 5, 2022 at 21:27
  • $\begingroup$ Are there coils on the spring, or is this just a bent wire? $\endgroup$
    – jalex
    Commented Jul 8, 2022 at 14:12
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    $\begingroup$ Eq. (1) is linear elasticity (Hooke's law), while the equation (2) is clearly not. Still, one can apply the position boundary conditions to $d \theta/ds$ as well (after integrating this equation one has two constants for two BC). $\endgroup$
    – Roger V.
    Commented Jul 18, 2022 at 8:19

3 Answers 3

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In general, you have to find the potential for individual components of the spring and sum them up over the trajectory.[Integrate] Remember you do not have to increase k as you are not physically disconnecting the components. And the equation of the shape matters [because through this you will have the displaced height from the equilibrium] My approach! (Based on your constrained process) is given below, $$V=\frac{1}{2}ky^{2}$$ $$dV=kydy$$ $$dy=\frac{dV}{ky}----(I)$$ let assume the equation of the shape is given by y=f(x), y is the vertical displacement from the equilibrium. $${\dot{y}}=f'(x)=\frac{dy}{dx}$$ Thus, $$dy=f'(x)dx----(II)$$ From eq-(I) & (II) $$dx=\frac{dV}{kf(x)f'(x)}$$ As we know, $$ds=\sqrt{(dx)^{2}+(dy)^{2}}$$ Substituting dx and dy, $$ds=\frac{dV}{kf(x)}\sqrt{1+\left(\frac{dy}{dx}\right)^{-2}}$$ That implies, $$dV=\frac{ky}{\sqrt{1+(\dot{y})^{-2}}}ds$$ Therefore, $$V=k\int_{s_{1}}^{s_{2}}\left(\frac{y}{\sqrt{1+(\dot{y})^{-2}}}\right)ds$$ enter image description here

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  • $\begingroup$ As it’s currently written, your answer is unclear. Please edit to add additional details that will help others understand how this addresses the question asked. You can find more information on how to write good answers in the help center. $\endgroup$
    – Community Bot
    Commented Jul 8, 2022 at 11:27
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    $\begingroup$ I don't think your starting assumption $V=\frac12 ky^2$ is correct. When the spring is bent upward, we clearly also need a contribution from stretching in the x-direction, which you didn't include (and we would also overcount stretching in the y direction). I do think your approach might be a valid approximation for small displacements in y. I appreciate the original response! $\endgroup$
    – Mondo Duke
    Commented Jul 10, 2022 at 8:01
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I am not sure whether I have understood your question correctly, but if it is going to help you, I could outline a derivation of equation (2), which after the application of a trigonometric identity, can be converted into pendulum's equation.

Fix a 2D inertial, orthonormal coordinate system $O\,\vec{i}\,\vec{j}$

Parametrize the curve by arc-length: $$\vec{r}(s) = x(s)\,\vec{i} \,+\, y(s)\,\vec{j}$$ where $s \in [0, L]$ is the arc-length parameter. An arc-length parametrization is characterized by the identity $$\left\|\frac{d\vec{r}}{ds}\right\|^2 \,=\,\Big(\,\frac{dx}{ds}\,\Big)^2+\, \Big(\,\frac{dy}{ds}\,\Big)^2 \,=\, 1$$ which is a constraint. Then, after denoting by $R = R(s)$ radius of curvature at distance $s$ from the origin of the curve, $$\frac{1}{R^2} \,=\, \left\|\frac{d^2\vec{r}}{ds^2}\right\|^2 \,=\, \left(\frac{d^2x}{ds^2}\right)^2 \,+\, \left(\frac{d^2y}{ds^2} \right)^2$$ The length of the curve is fixed, and on top of that usually the endpoints are also fixed: one end is at the origin $O$ of the coordinate system, the other end is at positive coordinate position $(a, \,b) \,=\, a\,\vec{i} + b\,\vec{j}$ which yields the constraints $$\vec{r}(0) \,=\, \vec{0}\,\,\text{ and }\,\,\vec{r}(L) \,=\, a\,\vec{i} + b\,\vec{j}$$ Consequently, the constraint Lagrangian is $$\int_0^{L} \, \frac{1}{2}\,\left\|\frac{d^2\vec{r}}{ds^2}\right\|^2\,ds \,+\, \lambda \, \big(\,\vec{i}\cdot\vec{r}(L) - a\,\big) \,+\, \mu \, \big(\,\vec{j}\cdot\vec{r}(L) - b\,\big)\,+\, \nu\,\left(\,\left\|\frac{d\vec{r}}{ds}\right\|^2 - 1 \,\right)$$ which, by Newton-Leibniz, can be written as $$\int_0^{L} \, \frac{1}{2}\,\left\|\frac{d^2\vec{r}}{ds^2}\right\|^2\,ds \,+\, \lambda \, \Big(\,\int_{0}^{L}\, \Big(\, \vec{i}\cdot\frac{d\vec{r}}{ds}\,\Big)\,ds - a\,\Big) \,+\, \mu \, \Big(\,\int_{0}^{L}\, \Big(\, \vec{j}\cdot\frac{d\vec{r}}{ds}\,\Big)\,ds - b\,\Big)\,+\, \nu\,\left(\,\left\|\frac{d\vec{r}}{ds}\right\|^2 - 1 \,\right)$$ an then $$\int_0^{L} \,\left(\, \frac{1}{2}\,\left\|\frac{d^2\vec{r}}{ds^2}\right\|^2 \,+\, \lambda\, \Big(\, \vec{i}\cdot\frac{d\vec{r}}{ds}\,\Big) \,+\, \mu \, \Big(\, \vec{j}\cdot\frac{d\vec{r}}{ds}\,\Big)\,\right)\,ds\,+\, \nu\,\left(\,\left\|\frac{d\vec{r}}{ds}\right\|^2 - 1 \,\right) \,-\, \lambda\,a - \mu\, b$$ where the constant terms can be removed, yielding the constraint Lagrangian $$\int_0^{L} \,\left(\, \frac{1}{2}\,\left\|\frac{d^2\vec{r}}{ds^2}\right\|^2 \,+\, \lambda\, \Big(\, \vec{i}\cdot\frac{d\vec{r}}{ds}\,\Big) \,+\, \mu \, \Big(\, \vec{j}\cdot\frac{d\vec{r}}{ds}\,\Big)\,\right)\,ds\,+\, \nu\,\left(\,\left\|\frac{d\vec{r}}{ds}\right\|^2 - 1 \,\right)$$ In order the reduce the order of the derivatives, substitute $$\vec{u}(s) \,=\, \frac{d\vec{r}}{ds}(s)$$ and the Lagrangian is now $$\int_0^{L} \,\left(\, \frac{1}{2}\,\left\|\frac{d\vec{u}}{ds}\right\|^2 \,+\, \lambda\, \Big(\, \vec{i}\cdot\vec{u}\,\Big) \,+\, \mu \, \Big(\, \vec{j}\cdot\vec{u}\,\Big)\,\right)\,ds\,+\, \nu\,\left(\,\left\|\vec{u}\right\|^2 - 1 \,\right)$$ One can easily remove the last holonomic constraint by introducing $\theta = \theta(s)$ such that $$\vec{u}(s) \,=\, \cos\theta(s)\,\vec{i}\,+\, \sin\theta(s)\,\vec{j}$$ which turns the Lagrangian into $$\int_0^{L} \,\left(\, \frac{1}{2}\,\left(\,\frac{d\theta}{ds}\,\right)^2 \,+\, \lambda\, \cos(\theta) \,+\, \mu \, \sin(\theta)\,\right)\,ds$$ The Euler-Lagrange equation is $$\frac{d^2\theta}{ds^2}\,=\, -\,\lambda \,\sin(\theta) \,+\, \mu\, \cos(\theta)$$ By certain trigonometric identities, one can find $\omega$ such that if one makes the substitution $\varphi \,=\, \theta + \omega$ the equation becomes something like
$$\frac{d^2\varphi}{ds^2} \,=\, -\, \Big(\,\sqrt{\lambda^2 + \mu^2}\,\Big)\,\cos(\varphi)$$

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  • $\begingroup$ This was exactly what I was looking for. Have you seen this problem before/if so where did you learn about it? $\endgroup$
    – Mondo Duke
    Commented Jul 20, 2022 at 2:50
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    $\begingroup$ @MondoDuke I am glad you found the information you were looking for. I have heard some seminar talks about elastic curve problems mostly in the direction of time-discretization of the model, rather than how to arrive at the Lagrangian formulation. For this post, I simply worked it out, based on my experience with Lagrnagian mechanics. I think after one has applied Lagnrangian formalism enough times, one develops the ability to derive these models from first principles. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 20, 2022 at 6:34
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I think you are asking about what is called an an elastica.

The energy is given by $$ E=\int \frac 12 (\lambda \kappa^2 + \nu \tau^2) ds $$ where $s$ is the arc length, $\lambda$ and $\nu$ are constants. The functions $\kappa$ and $\tau$ are the curvature and torsion of the curve ${\bf r}(s)$ that are defined by the Serret-Frenet equations: $$ \frac{d{\bf t}}{ds}=\kappa {\bf n}\\ \frac{d{\bf n}}{ds}=-\kappa {\bf n}+\tau {\bf b}\\ \frac{d{\bf b}}{ds}= - \tau{\bf n} $$ Here $$ {\bf t}= \frac{d{\bf r}}{ds} $$ is the unit tangent, and the normal ${\bf n}$ and binormal ${\bf b}$ vectors are implicitly defined by these equations.

There is a large literature --- starting from Euler who defined the notion of an elastic rod --- on these equations and their solutions

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    $\begingroup$ This is a low quality post containing mostly a URL and little more details. $\endgroup$
    – jalex
    Commented Jul 8, 2022 at 14:14
  • $\begingroup$ 1) How did you derive the relation with the energy? 2) Using those equations, how would you actually solve my problem? I am considering only the 2D case (torsion = 0) $\endgroup$
    – Mondo Duke
    Commented Jul 10, 2022 at 7:52
  • $\begingroup$ Also, your second equation ($\frac{dn}{ds}$) is wrong. I shouldnt have awarded the bounty yet... $\endgroup$
    – Mondo Duke
    Commented Jul 10, 2022 at 8:08
  • $\begingroup$ Yes. Second S-F equation is wrong, Will edit. There are solutions to the planar case here here: www2.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2008/EECS-2008-103.pdf THe energy expression is equation 10 in that paper. $\endgroup$
    – mike stone
    Commented Jul 10, 2022 at 12:15
  • $\begingroup$ The variation of equation 10 in that paper gives $\frac{d\theta}{d s} = constant$, so the solution is clearly a segment of a circle. This is clearly limited/not correct. What is wrong here, and is equation 10 limited in some way? $\endgroup$
    – Mondo Duke
    Commented Jul 12, 2022 at 21:17

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