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Background:

Let’s say we have a trajectory $\vec{y}(t)$ expressed in coordinates of an accelerated reference frame. In an inertial reference frame the trajectory is given by: $\vec{x}(t)=R(t)\vec{y}(t)+ \vec{b}(t)$, $R \in SO(3), \vec{b} \in \mathbb{R}^3$. By differentiation we find that:

$ m\ddot{\vec{y}}=R^T\vec{F}_x -2mR^T\dot{R}\dot{\vec{y}}-mR^T\ddot{R}\vec{y}-mR^T\ddot{\vec{b}} \tag{1} $

Where $\vec{F}_x$ are the forces acting on the object in $x$ coordinates. Noticing that $R^T\dot{R}$ is anti-symmetric we can write: $R^T\dot{R}\vec{y}=: \vec{\omega} \times \vec{y}$, thus we have our equation of motion in y-coordinates:

$ m\ddot{\vec{y}}=\vec{F}_y -2m\vec{\omega} \times {\dot{\vec{y}}}-m \dot{\vec{\omega}}\times\vec{y}-m \vec{\omega} \times (\vec{\omega} \times \vec{y})-m\vec{a} \tag{2} $

Where $\vec{a}$ is the acceleration of the origin of the non inertial reference frame in y-coordinates.

We call $-m \vec{\omega} \times (\vec{\omega} \times \vec{y}) \tag{3} $

the centrifugal force (in y-coordinates). I hope I‘m correct until now.

Question:

I don’t understant, however, how this term makes sense. Let’s say I‘m sitting on a carousel facing inwards. I therefore am the accelerated reference frame and describe the world in y-coordinates (Let’s say my head is at the origin of the y-coordinates, I am looking along the $y_1$-axis to the carousel‘s center and the $y_3$ axis is normal to the ground). I would expect to observe a force pointing towards the negative $y_1$ direction, wouldn’t I? But if I plug everything into $-m \vec{\omega} \times (\vec{\omega} \times \vec{y}) =-m\omega^2 \hat{y_3} \times(\hat{y_3} \times0)$ I get 0! (I chose $\vec{y}=0$ because my head is at the origin). Why doesn’t my head (and everything else on the $y_3$ Axis) experience a centrifugal force?

(Follow up question: Am I correct to express $\vec{\omega}$ in the y basis?)

Thank you:)

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  • $\begingroup$ I advise you numerate your equations. Otherwise, it will be difficult to explain, for instance, I think in your second equation $\vec{y}$ should be $\dot{\vect{y}$ $\endgroup$
    – facenian
    Commented Jun 28, 2022 at 23:25
  • $\begingroup$ Yes, thank you, you’re right, now (2) should be correct:) $\endgroup$
    – Henry T.
    Commented Jun 28, 2022 at 23:55

1 Answer 1

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Assume rotation in a circle at constant angular speed. For your non-inertial frame with origin at your head, the origin of the non-inertial frame is accelerating with respect to the origin of the inertial frame so the fictitious force term $-m\vec a$ is not zero; all other fictitious forces (e.g. centrifugal force) are zero. For uniform circular motion $m\vec a$ is the centripetal force directed inwards, so the fictitious force $-m\vec a$ is outward and in the non-inertial frame you are stationary.

If you had picked the origin of the non-inertial frame to be the same as the origin of the inertial frame (center of the carousel) the only fictitious force keeping you at rest in the non-inertial frame would be the centrifugal force.

In either case, the fictious force has the same value, but the actual type of fictitious force between the two cases is different, because of the different motions of the non-inertial frames.

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  • $\begingroup$ Oh, you‘re right, thank you! So from now on I‘ll keep in mind that I have to align the origins of my coordinate systems if I want to use $-m \vec{\omega} \times (\vec{\omega} \times \vec{y})$! $\endgroup$
    – Henry T.
    Commented Jun 29, 2022 at 0:26
  • $\begingroup$ Glad I could help! $\endgroup$
    – John Darby
    Commented Jun 29, 2022 at 1:22
  • $\begingroup$ You could also pick a non-inertial frame that rotates with a different angular velocity from that of the carousel in the inertial frame; then the fictitious forces become more complicated. $\endgroup$
    – John Darby
    Commented Jun 29, 2022 at 1:45

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