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I came across an interesting problem in one of my exam preparation worksheets recently. To make absolutely sure that I do not omit any important information from the problem, I have included below a direct screenshot of its introduction. Electric field in sphere problem

I was able to to parts a.) - d.) without issue, but part e.) was where I got confused. It asks:

e.) Explain the steps that the student must follow in order to derive $\rho(r)$ from $E(r)$.

Here was my original solution:

By Gauss' (Integral) Law, $$\unicode{x222F} E(r) dA= 4 \pi r^2 E (r) = \frac{Q_{enc}}{\epsilon} = \frac{\int_{0}^{r}4 \pi r^2 \rho(r) dr}{\epsilon}.$$ Which leads to $$4 \pi \epsilon r^2 E(r) = \int_{0}^{r} 4 \pi r^2 \rho(r) dr.$$

Differentiating on both sides, $$4 \pi \epsilon (E'(r)r^2 + 2r E(r)) = 4 \pi r^2 \rho(r).$$

Solving for $\rho(r)$, $$ \rho(r) = \epsilon (E'(r) + \frac{2E(r)}{r}).$$

However, I've also been able to arrive at a different answer by Gauss' (Differential) Law. If you define the three axis of this space to be one along $r$ and the other two exactly orthogonal to each other and to $r$, then, unless I'm mistaken, the field will only have any strength in the $r$-dimension due to symmetry conditions. The other two dimensions will be locked at zero for all points along the $r$-axis. However, if one travels slightly off this axis, then there will be a non-zero value again. This implies that the $r$-axis is a line of extrema, and therefore that the two non-$r$ derivatives must be 0 when evaluated on the $r$-axis. That would transform Gauss' Law from saying $$\nabla \bullet E(x,y,r) = \frac{p(x,y,r)}{\epsilon} \Rightarrow E'(r) = \frac{\rho(r)}{\epsilon}.$$

Solving for $\rho(r)$, $$\rho(r) = \epsilon E'(r).$$

These both can't be true, so I am wondering on which path, differential or integral, I made an error. I assume it's the differential path, but that's really nothing more than a hunch.

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  • $\begingroup$ I'm sorry, I misunderstood the geometry. I'm embarrassed enough that I'll delete my comment. :-) $\endgroup$
    – garyp
    Commented May 8, 2020 at 22:16

2 Answers 2

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It looks like you're confusing the Divergence operator $\nabla\cdot E$ with the derivative or gradient operator $\nabla$. These are two very different things (as the divergence operator applies to vector fields and returns a scalar while the gradient applies to scalars and returns a vector field).

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  • $\begingroup$ Sorry, I should be clear in my notation. In the integral case, I treat $E(r)$ as a scalar function, but in the differential case I treat $E(r)$ as a vector function. It is also technically $E(x,y,r)$, but the problem is only interested in solving along the $r$-axis, so I state it as $E(r)$. Either way, though, $E$ is technically a vector with three coordinates, one being the $r$-axis and the other two being orthogonal to it and each other. $\endgroup$
    – jheb
    Commented May 8, 2020 at 21:09
  • $\begingroup$ I was mainly referring to this step: $\nabla\cdot E(x,y,z) = \rho(r)\epsilon => E'(r) = \rho(r)\epsilon$ where you converted the divergence of $E$ into the derivative of $E$ $\endgroup$ Commented May 8, 2020 at 21:12
  • $\begingroup$ I got to that statement by saying that $\nabla \bullet E(x,y,r) = E_{x}(x,y,r) + E_{y}(x,y,r) + E_{r}(x,y,r)$. Using the logic I put forth in my paragraph, $E_{x}(x,y,r) = 0$ and $E_{y}(x,y,r) = 0$, leaving $\nabla \bullet E(x,y,r) = E_{r}(x,y,r)$. I chose to write the right hand side simply as $E'(r)$ because, for the purposes of this problem, there is no need go evaluate anywhere off the $r$-axis (with the exception of the logic I used in the first paragraph of the differential case). $\endgroup$
    – jheb
    Commented May 8, 2020 at 21:19
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    $\begingroup$ See Nasu's answer below. The divergence operator in spherical coordinates is different from what you said. I think that this playlist of youtube videos explains it really well and it should help you get a better understanding of how to apply Gauss's Law in differential form to these questions youtube.com/… $\endgroup$ Commented May 9, 2020 at 0:02
  • $\begingroup$ @thegreatman212 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the issue is that you're treating "r" like an independent variable from x and y, but r should just be equal to $$\sqrt{x^2+y^2}$$, so it shouldn't be considered independent. $\endgroup$ Commented May 9, 2020 at 3:57
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Look up divergence operator in spherical coordinates. The radial part is not just the derivative of Er in respect to r. If you use the right expression for the Div operator you get the same answer by both methods.

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  • $\begingroup$ I believe the axes I define are Cartesian, though. It's just that one of them happens to be named $r$. The $r$-axis goes through the center of the sphere and the $x$ and $y$ axis are perpendicular to that and to each other. $x$ and $y$ aren't supposed to be angles as I defined them. $\endgroup$
    – jheb
    Commented May 9, 2020 at 1:29
  • $\begingroup$ And that isn't correct with the definition of r as simply the distance from the center of the sphere. It points in all directions outwards so there isn't an r axis so to speak. $\endgroup$
    – Triatticus
    Commented May 9, 2020 at 5:10
  • $\begingroup$ The way I'm imagining this, the $r$-axis is fixed. It isn't determined by any independent angles and there's no relation to spherical coordinates. The important feature of the $r$-axis is that along it, the electric field vector $E$ points entirely parallel to it and has 0 as its values in the $x$ and $y$ directions. This isn't true if you shift a little off the $r$-axis, meaning the $r$-axis is a line of extrema and the Cartesian divergence simplifies to what I wrote. That's if there's no error in my reasoning, though, which there likely is. But it's not confusion with spherical coordinates. $\endgroup$
    – jheb
    Commented May 9, 2020 at 18:21
  • $\begingroup$ This is your error. As the other comment has pointed out, the sperical symmetry implies that you are using spherical coordinates. Othervise you should use E as a function of x, y and z and use the spherical symmetry of the distribution as a relationship betwen the x, y z components. It does not matter what you call r, it is still one of the spherical coordinates and you should use the appropriate form of the operators. The fild has components along all x,y, z directions. Only in spherical coordinates the component along the other 2 axes (angular) are zero. $\endgroup$
    – nasu
    Commented May 12, 2020 at 4:26

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