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How does the presence of multiple spatial and temporal scales present in a physical system make it difficult to numerically simulate the system.

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  • $\begingroup$ why not convert them all in one scale? or make your question clearer, $\endgroup$
    – trula
    Commented Apr 7, 2020 at 17:13

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Suppose I have a signal that is a sine wave of frequency of 1 Hz and I want to show you a discrete sampling of that signal. Let's say to get a good representation we agree that I need $A=10$ data points per period. If I want to show you one period then I need 10 data points. If I want to show you $B=1000$ periods then I need 10,000 data points.

In the case with one period there was only one time scale involved, the period of the signal was $T_{per}$ and the length of the window was $T_{tot}$ but these were equal so we only needed $A$ data points.

In the case with 1,000 periods there were two time scales involved, the period of the signal $T_{per}$ and the total window length $T_{tot}=B T_{per}$. We see that we needed $BA$ data points.

Here $A$ is something like a fidelity factor, $A$ is higher if you want a better representation of the signal. $B$ is a seperation of time scales factor. It is the ratio between the shortest and longest timescale you would like to represent.

Another example, suppose we have a signal which is composed of a signal at 1 Hz ($T_{1,per} = 1\text{ s}$) and a signal at 1 MHz ($T_{2,per} = 1 \text{ $\mu$s}$). If we keep the same fidelity factor of $A=10$ then that means our samples must be spaced in $100 \text{ ns}$ intervals, but if we want to represent the 1 Hz signal we need to at least have $T_{tot}=1s$ meaning we must have $10^7$ samples. Here $B=10^6$.

So we see that a separation of timescales is difficult to simulate because the high frequency signal forces you to have high frequency sampling but the low frequency sampling forces you to have a very long signal. These two effects result in a very large number of samples necessary which uses a lot of memory and makes computation very slow.

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  • $\begingroup$ That's a very good answer. How to tackle this multi scale problem ? $\endgroup$
    – bubucodex
    Commented Apr 7, 2020 at 17:44
  • $\begingroup$ are you really interested in this kind of multi scale problem or is your question about a multi scale problem, which is inherent in the problem and which can not be solved? $\endgroup$
    – NotMe
    Commented Apr 7, 2020 at 17:48
  • $\begingroup$ I'm not very clever when it comes to numerical simulations, I just know how to brute force things so the brute force answer is to get more memory and processing power and parallelize the computation if you can. Otherwise make sure you are using efficient numerical algorithms so that you're not wasting computation times. Sometimes you can transform the problem analytically to eliminate the separation of timescales. The rotating wave approximation common in atomic physics is an example of such a transformation. $\endgroup$
    – Jagerber48
    Commented Apr 7, 2020 at 17:51
  • $\begingroup$ I can't say more about how to solve this general problem because 1) I'm not an expert and 2) That is a different question than the one which was asked in the OP so it might warrant its own question. You may also want to look at this computation science stack exchange instead of physics: scicomp.stackexchange.com $\endgroup$
    – Jagerber48
    Commented Apr 7, 2020 at 17:52
  • $\begingroup$ I am interested to know about how this problem is solved while doing numerical simulation. @Semoi $\endgroup$
    – bubucodex
    Commented Apr 7, 2020 at 17:55

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