I have a vague notion that thermodynamics is best captured in some language like differential geometry or something of the sort, but I am unfamiliar with said language. That being said, it seems to come up over and over again and, unfrortunately, my lack of knowledge hurts me here. In particular, I am studying Callen's derivation (Chapter 2) of the so-called "entropic intensive parameters" (simply the partial derivatives of the entropy with respect to its natural variables $U,V,X_k$ -- we restrict to a simple system for simplicity) and how these relate to the "energetic intensive parameters" (simply the partial derivatives of the entropy with respect to its natural variables $S,V,X_k$). One finds, says Callen, that \begin{equation} \left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial U} \right)_{X_k} \stackrel{(1)}{=} \frac{1}{\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial S} \right)_{X_k}} = \frac{1}{T} \end{equation} and \begin{equation} \left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial X_i} \right)_{U,X_k; \, k\neq i} \stackrel{(1)}{=} \frac{-\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial X_i} \right)_{S,X_k; \, k\neq i}}{\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial S} \right)_{X_i,X_k; \, k\neq i}} =: \frac{-P_i}{T} \end{equation} where in both cases the (1) has used that all of the thermodynamic variables are related as some $\psi(S,U,N,X_k) = const$. That is, I believe the development above uses/assumes that system is described on such a $\psi(S,U,N,X_k) = const$ surface (so that the so-called reciprocal and reciprocity relations can be used). Is this correct? It also seems tacit in Callen's development that this $\psi$ should be such that we can always get one as a function (and not some relation?) of all the others...is this understanding correct too?
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$\begingroup$ Differential geometry is not too helpful (but yes, geometrical thinking should help). Those manipulations are all partial derivatives identities and Maxwell's relations. The front part of Callen is just ridiculously difficult to read, but so rewarding whenever you understand any little bit. I do not remember enough to sort this out, but I think you will eventually be able to sort it out yourself. $\endgroup$– naturallyInconsistentCommented May 14, 2023 at 19:14
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1$\begingroup$ Yes, thermodynamics can be formulated in the language of differential geometry! "The Geometry of Physics" by Frankel discusses that. Also in "The statistical theory of Heat" by Scheck there is a chapter discussing this approach. $\endgroup$– Tobias FünkeCommented May 14, 2023 at 19:16
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2$\begingroup$ Thermodynamics could be formulated in terms of differential geometry, but it is worse than trying to kill a mosquito with a cannon. The typical domain of thermodynamic functions is a cone, and "simple" real analysis in $\mathbb{R}^n$ is enough. $\endgroup$– GiorgioP-DoomsdayClockIsAt-90Commented May 14, 2023 at 19:33
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$\begingroup$ I believe that pretty much every undergrad who takes general relativity and thermodynamics at the same time discovers the geometric connection... but in practice it is fairly useless because you simply don't know the shape of your manifold unless you are in the business of working in a steam power plant for which the thermodynamics functions have been painstakingly measured over the course of a century. Yes, it's geometric... so what? We don't know the geometry and there is no way to calculate it from first principles. $\endgroup$– FlatterMannCommented May 14, 2023 at 19:50
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$\begingroup$ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_geometry Related: physics.stackexchange.com/questions/388318/… and mathoverflow.net/questions/297790/… $\endgroup$– robphyCommented May 14, 2023 at 19:51
1 Answer
The surface and its differential geometry that pops up in the Caratheodory-style thermostatics and one you are alluding to is related to either of two functions $S=S_1(T,X_1,X_2,...,X_N)$ or the $S=S_2(U,X_1,X_2,...,X_N)$. For either function one can define an isentropic surface $S=const$ with the property that the whole of the available $N+1$ dimensional thermostatic space when parametrized by the configuration variables $X_1,...X_N$ and with either $T$ or $U$ can be filled by these surfaces without them having common points; the mathematicians call this a foliation. This is essentially the differential geometric content and it is not related to the partial differential derivatives in your question. Despite its elegance Caratheodory's mathematics does not really add much physical insight.
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$\begingroup$ Can you comment then on what underlies the partial derivatives in my question? In the end, that's the crux of my question, but I had thought (after following the derivation in Callen's Appendix A) that one had to begin at $\psi(S,U,N,X_k) = const$ to arrive at these relationships between derivatives "on this surface"? $\endgroup$– EE18Commented May 14, 2023 at 19:56
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$\begingroup$ You can write a functional relationship connecting the parameters $S, U, X_1,X_2,..X_N$ as an implicit function $\psi(S, U, X_1, X_2,..X_N)=const$ or as an explicit function $S=\phi(U, X_1,X_2,..X_N$. While they are not exactly equivalent the existence of the explicit function follows from some mild smoothness requirements that will fail at phase boundaries, and some such, but there we impose a kind of compatibility relationship (Clausius-Clapeyron equation) between the two of functions that are joined at the boundary. $\endgroup$ Commented May 14, 2023 at 20:19
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$\begingroup$ Callen in Appendix A5 (I think that is what you are referring to) proves a very useful and frequently employed identity A.28 among the various partial derivatives of the smooth implicit function $\psi(x,y,z) =const$. This is just straight multivariable calculus without any direct geometric meaning, differential or otherwise. In comparison, based on the principle of adiabatic inaccessibility, Caratheodory's "proof" that the thermostatic space can be foliated is more or less equivalent to the existence of "entropy" and "absolute temperature". $\endgroup$ Commented May 14, 2023 at 20:27
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$\begingroup$ Ah, I think your first comment gets at the crux of my question, with my "geometric" phrase coming from my lack of math background here. The existence of said implicit function wasn't stated in the main body of the text (Postulate II is couched in terms of the explicit function), so I wasn't sure whether there was some mathematical theorem guaranteeing that we could cast things in terms of an implicit function or something like that. $\endgroup$– EE18Commented May 14, 2023 at 20:52
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$\begingroup$ @EE18 In case you don't know already: The implicit function theorem. $\endgroup$ Commented May 14, 2023 at 22:00