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We know that the auxiliary magnetic field $\bf{H}$ is

$$\mathbf{H}=\frac{1}{\mu_{0}} \mathbf{B}-\mathbf{M}$$

and $$\mathbf{\nabla} \times \mathbf{H}=\mathbf{J}_{f}$$ but this differential equation is generally not valid at the boundary of a magnetized body due to an abrupt change in the magnetisation $\mathbf{M}$ at the boundary.

From this differential equation follows $$\oint \mathbf{H} \cdot d \mathbf{l}=I_{f_{\mathrm{enc}}}$$ Is this integral equation valid if applied across a boundary of a magnetized material,(that is one end of the integral is inside the magnetised body and the other is out of it)? Or does it inherit any problems from its differential form?

EDIT: I think my question isn't clear so I'll add:

We derive the loop integral from the curl using stokes theorem. However the curl is not defined on the boundary so is the loop integral well defined? Another way of saying is that: can I use stokes theorem when the curl of function isn't defined on some region? –

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  • $\begingroup$ Why would the equation curl H = j_f not be valid on the boundary? I think it is. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 22, 2021 at 14:52
  • $\begingroup$ The magnetisation it's discontinuous,so it's derivatives will have a singularity imho $\endgroup$
    – Kashmiri
    Commented Feb 22, 2021 at 15:44
  • $\begingroup$ Yes current is singular on the boundary but these equations are still valid in distribution sense. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 22, 2021 at 16:29
  • $\begingroup$ What troubles me is how we can apply Stokes theorem for a discontinuous function. Do you have any idea where to look it up dear Jan Lalinsky. I also asked it on MSE, no response :( here math.stackexchange.com/questions/4034965/… $\endgroup$
    – Kashmiri
    Commented Feb 22, 2021 at 16:56
  • $\begingroup$ You can try some older books on vector analysis, A. P. Wills comes to mind. The general rule is if the expression is linear in vector field, delta-like singularities pose no problem and everything including Gauss-Ostrogradskii and Stokes' theorem works. Just do not use integration surface/curve that runs through the singularity, that does not work well - the singularity has to be either inside or outside. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 22, 2021 at 17:46

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If I understand correctly the question, the answer lies in the 6.3.3 paragraph of Griffiths' book. Yes, it does inherit the discontinuity. In this case, you could still use the differential equation just above and just below the discontinuity, and taking an integration path that crosses the boundary will give you boundary conditions for the magnetic field and for the auxiliary field. Another reference is this:

https://unlcms.unl.edu/cas/physics/tsymbal/teaching/EM-913/section6-Magnetostatics.pdf

Post-EDIT:

Yes, you can still use the theorem, if you are cautious with the domains of integration. The loop integral will be defined even in case of discontinuity because of what I said in the comments.

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  • $\begingroup$ So is the loop integral not valid! $\endgroup$
    – Kashmiri
    Commented Feb 21, 2021 at 17:08
  • $\begingroup$ What do you mean with not valid? $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 21, 2021 at 17:24
  • $\begingroup$ I apologize for my perhaps bad way of putting things. We derive the loop integral from the curl using stokes theorem. However the curl is not defined on the boundary so is the loop integral well defined? Another way of saying is that: can I use stokes theorem when the curl of function isn't defined on some region? $\endgroup$
    – Kashmiri
    Commented Feb 22, 2021 at 3:08
  • $\begingroup$ Yes, I think it boils down to the discontinuity region being a set of null measure, i.e. just the boundary between the two magnetizations and since it's all finite (nothing diverges) it won't contribute to the integral. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 22, 2021 at 8:47
  • $\begingroup$ Any mathematics you might want to add? $\endgroup$
    – Kashmiri
    Commented Feb 22, 2021 at 10:15
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Is this integral equation valid if applied across a boundary of a magnetized material,(that is one end of the integral is inside the magnetised body and the other is out of it)? Or does it inherit any problems from its differential form?

There is an assumption regarding this boundary condition that is often overlooked for various reasons, but can sometimes become problematic. The limitations of this assumption are discussed in detail in Sections I.5 and I.6 of Classical Electrodynamics, Third Edition by John D. Jackson (i.e., blue cover version). So we start with: $$ \oint_{C} \ \mathbf{H} \cdot d\mathbf{l} = \int_{S'} \ da \ \left[ \mathbf{j} + \partial_{t} \mathbf{D} \right] \cdot \mathbf{n}' \tag{0} $$ where $\mathbf{H}$ is the magnetic field (technically, $\mathbf{B}$ is the magnetic induction), $\mathbf{D}$ is the electric displacement, $\mathbf{j}$ is the current density (specifically the macroscopic average current density, see pages 248--258 in Jackson's book for definition and derivation), $S'$ is a closed surface with an outward unit normal $\mathbf{n}'$, and $\partial_{t} = \tfrac{ \partial }{ \partial t }$.

Typically one sweeps the following under the rug, as it were. There can be a surface current density, $\mathbf{K}$, that exists in a thin layer no thicker than one electron skin depth on the surface of the conducting material either caused by time-varying fields or merely present due to some source. In such scenarios, the right-hand side of Equation 0 changes to: $$ \int_{S'} \ da \ \left[ \mathbf{j} + \partial_{t} \mathbf{D} \right] \cdot \mathbf{t} = \mathbf{K} \cdot \mathbf{t} \ \Delta l \tag{1} $$ where $\mathbf{t}$ is the unit vector transverse to the surface $S'$ and $\Delta l$ is the scale length of the pill box transverse to the surface $S'$.

There is another issue that arises at such a boundary involving what Jackson refers to as truly microscopic surface charge densities, i.e., $\rho\left( x \right) = \sigma \delta\left( x \right)$ where $\sigma$ is the average surface charge density and $\delta\left( x \right)$ is the Dirac delta function. The idealized scenario we are taught in class is that $\sigma$ exists on the surface and that it has zero thickness, i.e., no charge density inside conductors, only on the surface. However, the truth is that $\rho\left( x \right)$ is confined to within $\pm 2$ angstroms of the ''surface'' of the ionic distribution. For nearly all purposes, there is a discontinuity in the electric field at this boundary but in reality it likely varies over a finite length comparable to a few atomic widths or so.

However the curl is not defined on the boundary so is the loop integral well defined? Another way of saying is that: can I use stokes theorem when the curl of function isn't defined on some region?

It depends on what you are doing. Are you testing what Jackson would call the microscopic or the macroscopic? If the latter, things are much easier and the right-hand side of Equation 0 is can vanish if there is no significant surface current density, $\mathbf{K}$, at the boundary. Even if present, one can still work with Equation 0 or 1, depending on scenario, and get meaningful results for macroscopic approximations.

Side Note
I did not rederive Jackson's definition of microscopic vs macroscopic because it's 10 pages in his book and not really necessary here. It basically involves noting the difference between spatial and temporal ansemble averages and why spatial are the correct choice then lots of details as to why XYZ is okay under WUV limits. The distinction in regards to this question is whether the OP wants to properly model $\mathbf{H}$ across the boundary on scales down to the atomic or if they are okay with the typical, larger scale approximations of micrometers and up (give or take).

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  • $\begingroup$ Dear Honeste vivere, I'm studying your answer. Forgive me for not currently accepting your answer for the math to my level is higher . I appreciate the time you took to write this answer. $\endgroup$
    – Kashmiri
    Commented Feb 24, 2021 at 14:57
  • $\begingroup$ @YasirSadiq - No worries. I've gone through those sections in gory detail a few times and still need to revisit them from time to time. There are many things we sweep under the rug, so to speak, without realizing it. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 24, 2021 at 15:00
  • $\begingroup$ These things which are unmentioned hurt most people like me who have no person in real to go to, to ask for help. $\endgroup$
    – Kashmiri
    Commented Feb 24, 2021 at 15:02
  • $\begingroup$ @YasirSadiq - If it helps, they are not omitted during discussion for malicious purposes. Generally the background required to understand the consequences of including such effects are beyond starting students. However, it is always a good idea to ask about the limits of various theorems, "laws," and approximations to gain an intuitive understanding of the problem. My answer is basically stating that the contour integral is perfectly fine if you don't care about microphysical scales and processes. In math, it's valid because the assumptions impose exactness. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 24, 2021 at 15:09
  • $\begingroup$ Hi, has the bounty added to your account? $\endgroup$
    – Kashmiri
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 4:17
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The contour integral across the boundary should not be considered as the direct application of Stoke's theorem in this area, but in a spirit similar to the principle of analytical continuation.

The Stokes' theorem

$$ \oint_C \mathbf{H}\times d\bf{l} = \iint_A \boldsymbol\nabla \times \mathbf{H}\cdot d\mathbf{a} = \mathbf{J}_{\text{f,enclosed}}. $$

This relation is applicable when $\boldsymbol\nabla \times \bf{H}$ is existed.It is, of course, not hold when $\boldsymbol\nabla \times \bf{H}$ diverges.

In region across the boundary, even though $\boldsymbol\nabla \times \bf{H}$ diverges, the area integral failed, but the contour integral is still working. We then adopt the contour integral as the definition, extended to such regions.

Therefore, the relation

$$ \oint_C \bf{H} \times d\bf{l} = \bf{J}_{\text{f,enclosed}}. $$

is an analytical continuation into the across-boundary region, even the $\nabla \times \bf{H}$ diverges therein.

Similarly, $\boldsymbol{\nabla}\cdot\bf{E}$ diverges at $r=0$ for $1/r^2$ field, but the surface integral still working there

$$ \iint \mathbf{E}\cdot d\bf{A}=\frac{1}{\epsilon_0} $$

We thus adopt the result from surface integral to define the strength of divergence.

$$ \boldsymbol{\nabla} \cdot \frac{\hat r}{r^2} = -4\pi \delta(r). $$

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  • $\begingroup$ Thank you could you explain as to why the contour integral works? $\endgroup$
    – Kashmiri
    Commented Feb 22, 2021 at 10:13
  • $\begingroup$ @YasirSadiq The integral is well defined for a piece-wise continuous function. Means that For each point, there exists a finite neighbor region, then the integral can be given an operational definition. $\endgroup$
    – ytlu
    Commented Feb 22, 2021 at 10:39
  • $\begingroup$ @YasirSadiq - You may find the following useful: math.stackexchange.com/q/780715/177342 $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 24, 2021 at 14:06
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Just use Ampère's law for $\mathbf B$ to get the total current. Then subtract the bound current from the result to get the free current, if needed.

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  • $\begingroup$ Interesting to see that this gets downvoted. It is perhaps too easy and straightforward. What kind of virtual photons actually carry H? $\endgroup$
    – my2cts
    Commented Feb 24, 2021 at 0:13
  • $\begingroup$ Dear my2cts I did not downvote it. I almost never downvote anything. I'm glad that you've added something although it doesn't directly address the question. $\endgroup$
    – Kashmiri
    Commented Feb 24, 2021 at 2:41
  • $\begingroup$ The usual excellent users who vote negative without reading the answer. +1 $\endgroup$
    – Sebastiano
    Commented Mar 4, 2021 at 22:31

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