Skip to main content
Bumped by Community user
Bumped by Community user
Bumped by Community user
Bumped by Community user
Tweeted twitter.com/StackPhysics/status/722572390098694145
added 5 characters in body
Source Link
user36790
user36790

I undertandunderstand how Canot'sCarnot's theorem implies that irreversible heat engines must be no more efficient than reversible one's, but it islessis less clear why they need to be less efficient, as I have seen stated in some places.

If they could be equally efficient then an irreversible engine engine could be used to drive a reversible engine operating between the same heat reservoirs, without any net energy transfer between the reservoirs. It would then be unclear what is irreversible about the irreversible engine. Does that constitute an actual contradiction though? If so can the argument be stated more tightly? It feels a litlelittle sloppy as is.

It could also be a quationquestion of how an irreversible engine is defined in Carnot's theorem. I understood it to mean one that cannot be run in reverse as a heat pump, which could presumably include a Carnot engine with a one way ratchet attached. If it really means an engine whose thermodynamic effects can not be undone, the implication would be trivial.

I undertand how Canot's theorem implies that irreversible heat engines must be no more efficient than reversible one's, but it isless clear why they need to be less efficient, as I have seen stated in some places.

If they could be equally efficient then an irreversible engine engine could be used to drive a reversible engine operating between the same heat reservoirs, without any net energy transfer between the reservoirs. It would then be unclear what is irreversible about the irreversible engine. Does that constitute an actual contradiction though? If so can the argument be stated more tightly? It feels a litle sloppy as is.

It could also be a quation of how an irreversible engine is defined in Carnot's theorem. I understood it to mean one that cannot be run in reverse as a heat pump, which could presumably include a Carnot engine with a one way ratchet attached. If it really means an engine whose thermodynamic effects can not be undone, the implication would be trivial.

I understand how Carnot's theorem implies that irreversible heat engines must be no more efficient than reversible one's, but it is less clear why they need to be less efficient, as I have seen stated in some places.

If they could be equally efficient then an irreversible engine engine could be used to drive a reversible engine operating between the same heat reservoirs, without any net energy transfer between the reservoirs. It would then be unclear what is irreversible about the irreversible engine. Does that constitute an actual contradiction though? If so can the argument be stated more tightly? It feels a little sloppy as is.

It could also be a question of how an irreversible engine is defined in Carnot's theorem. I understood it to mean one that cannot be run in reverse as a heat pump, which could presumably include a Carnot engine with a one way ratchet attached. If it really means an engine whose thermodynamic effects can not be undone, the implication would be trivial.

Source Link
Daniel Mahler
  • 3.5k
  • 24
  • 37

Irreversible heat engines strictly less efficient than reversible ones

I undertand how Canot's theorem implies that irreversible heat engines must be no more efficient than reversible one's, but it isless clear why they need to be less efficient, as I have seen stated in some places.

If they could be equally efficient then an irreversible engine engine could be used to drive a reversible engine operating between the same heat reservoirs, without any net energy transfer between the reservoirs. It would then be unclear what is irreversible about the irreversible engine. Does that constitute an actual contradiction though? If so can the argument be stated more tightly? It feels a litle sloppy as is.

It could also be a quation of how an irreversible engine is defined in Carnot's theorem. I understood it to mean one that cannot be run in reverse as a heat pump, which could presumably include a Carnot engine with a one way ratchet attached. If it really means an engine whose thermodynamic effects can not be undone, the implication would be trivial.