3
$\begingroup$

It is written on Wikipedia: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy)

The thermal energy of a system scales with its size and is therefore an extensive property. It is not a state function of the system unless the system has been constructed so that all changes in internal energy are due to changes in thermal energy, as a result of heat transfer (not work). Otherwise thermal energy is dependent on the way or method by which the system attained its temperature.

My question is: Why thermal energy is dependent on the way or method by which the system attained its temperature? You only need to give me an example proving that. Thanks in advance.

Improve this question
$\endgroup$
6
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ "Heat" is not a state function but energy is a state function, and so is "thermal energy" which is just another expression for "internal energy". Some people would like to banish the word "heat " as a noun from English and use it only as a verb, that is to heat something. Use it as a verb and then you will not get confused. $\endgroup$
    – hyportnex
    Feb 1, 2016 at 13:23
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Wiki does not confuse between heat and thermal energy. $\endgroup$
    – Trần Nhật Quang
    Feb 2, 2016 at 7:52
  • $\begingroup$ I think this is a good question. Why can't we use $U_{\rm thermal}$, $U_{\rm non-thermal}$, $V$, and $N$ as state variables instead of $U$, $V$, $N$? Wouldn't that make things less confusing? $\endgroup$
    – Eric David Kramer
    Mar 11, 2019 at 13:31
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ My advice is to call the state variable $U$ by the name "internal energy". Do not call it "thermal energy"; that will just lead to confusion. $\endgroup$
    – Andrew Steane
    May 24, 2021 at 11:17
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ P.S. to increase the internal energy of a system without supplying any heat, simply consider any process where the system is thermally isolated and work is done on it. e.g. slowly compress a gas in an insulated cylinder. $\endgroup$
    – Andrew Steane
    May 24, 2021 at 11:25

2 Answers 2

Reset to default
1
$\begingroup$

An example you asked for :

Consider a system of an ideal gas where volume of the gas is constant (call it system A) and one where the pressure is constant (System B). Because the internal energy of the system is a state variable, same change in temperature would cause same change in internal energy. Now, $$ \Delta U = Q + W$$ In A volume is constant so W=0 and hence Thermal energy $Q$ is equal to $\Delta U$. But in B the gas will expand, doing some work (say $-W$) and hence for the same change in $U$ we need to supply more thermal energy, equal to $\Delta U +W$.

Improve this answer
$\endgroup$
-2
$\begingroup$

Thermal energy is not a state variable because work can also contribute to thermal energy, e.g. through friction. Work can also contribute to other internal degrees of freedom. In general, work contributes to the total energy $$U = U_{\rm thermal} + U_{\rm non-thermal}.$$ Since work should be considered as contributing only to the total internal energy $U$, so should the heat $Q$, and therefore $$Q+W = \Delta U.$$ I think $Q$ could even contribute to non-thermal degrees of freedom if accompanied by an additional increase in entropy. I'm not 100% sure about this last statement.

Improve this answer
$\endgroup$
1
  • $\begingroup$ For an ideal gas isn't $U$ a state variable? $\endgroup$
    – BioPhysicist
    Apr 10, 2019 at 16:05

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge that you have read and understand our privacy policy and code of conduct.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.