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On a frictionless table there is a homogeneous rope of length $L$ and mass. We push the rope such that it immediately starts falling due to gravity. Find the velocity when the rope has fallen of the table edge

My question: I find the velocity to be $v = \sqrt {gL/2}$ but a solution I found on the Internet states that $v = \sqrt {gL}$ (Harvard Physics Dept., Problem Set on Classical Mechanics).

My solution:

Let the distance of the center of mass of the rope and the edge of the table be $x$. So the exposed part of the rope will be equal to $2x$. If $\sigma$ is the linear density of the rope then the gravitational force must be a conservative (hooke-like) force of the type: $$W = \sigma g 2x$$ since a total of $2x$ of the rope is exposed each time. That means by work energy theorem that

$$K = \int^{L/2}_0 W dx \iff \frac 1 2 m v^2 = \int^{L/2}_0 \sigma g 2x dx = [\sigma g x^2]^{L/2}_0 = \sigma g \frac {L^2} 4 \iff v = \sqrt {gL/2} $$

Problem set solution: here

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    $\begingroup$ why have you put the limit in your integrals as $L/2$ rather than $L$? $\endgroup$
    – danimal
    Commented Mar 13, 2015 at 11:52
  • $\begingroup$ I was wondering the same thing. Seems to me that if the entire rope eventually falls off the tape your integral should be $\int_0^LWdx$ $\endgroup$
    – Sean
    Commented Mar 13, 2015 at 11:53
  • $\begingroup$ The center of mass moves from 0 to the midpoint of the rope which is $L/2$ $\endgroup$
    – bolzano
    Commented Mar 13, 2015 at 11:54
  • $\begingroup$ You are confusing yourself with factors of 2 that you could do without... probably driven by your choice of $x$ as "the distance from the center of mass to the edge". Unless you mean the center of mass of the bit of rope that is still on the table, as defined $x$ seems to go from $-L/2$ to $L/2$. But again, it's hard to be sure without a diagram. $\endgroup$
    – Floris
    Commented Mar 13, 2015 at 12:15

2 Answers 2

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Not sure what you mean by "exposed part" of the rope. A diagram might help. But I believe you are overthinking the problem.

When the rope finishes falling off the table the center of mass is at a height $L/2$ so the potential energy lost (kinetic energy gained) is $\frac{mgL}{2}$ and therefore

$$\frac12 m v^2 = \frac12 mgL$$

And

$$v=\sqrt{gL}$$

It really is that simple.

UPDATE since you seem to be struggling with the fact that the force of gravity is not constant, here is how to compute the work done by gravity as the rope falls down:

At any given moment, let $x$ denote the amount of rope that is hanging off the edge. Its mass is $m\frac{x}{L}$ and the force of gravity at that moment is $F = m g \frac{x}{L}$.

It follows that the work done moving a distance $dx$ is

$$\mathrm{d}W = m g \frac{x}{L} \mathrm{d}x$$

Integrating from $x=0$ to $x=L$ you obtain

$$W = \int_0^L{m g \frac{x}{L} \mathrm{d}x} = \frac12 m g L$$

Which is the result you get from just considering the location of the center of mass.

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  • $\begingroup$ The gravitational force is not constant so the potential energy is not just $mgh$ as on a solid body. The "weight forcce" increases linearly. $\endgroup$
    – bolzano
    Commented Mar 13, 2015 at 11:57
  • $\begingroup$ The force is not constant, but when the rope is hanging off the edge you can compute the position of the center of mass. And since gravity is a conservative force, it doesn't matter how the rope got to that position. $\endgroup$
    – Floris
    Commented Mar 13, 2015 at 12:06
  • $\begingroup$ Wow. Now I feel stupid for telling him to do the integral. +1 $\endgroup$
    – Sean
    Commented Mar 13, 2015 at 12:10
  • $\begingroup$ @MaR1oC I have added the derivation of the "work done is the same when you consider the non uniform force" bit. $\endgroup$
    – Floris
    Commented Mar 13, 2015 at 12:10
  • $\begingroup$ @Sean - I added the integral just to show it gives the same result. But in many of these problems, an ounce of thought can save you a pound of algebra... $\endgroup$
    – Floris
    Commented Mar 13, 2015 at 12:11
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The equation of motion is $x(t)=\frac{v_0}{\omega_0}\sinh{(\omega_0 t)}+x_0\cosh{(\omega_0t)}$, where $\omega_0=\sqrt{\frac{g}{L}}$. If the rope is hanging initially at a distante $x_0$ away from the table then is easy to check that $v=\sqrt{Lg} \cos{(\delta)}$, where $\sin{(\delta)}=\frac{x_0}{L}$. And in the limit ($x_0\rightarrow 0$) we get the previous result.

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