Although it appears that the universe is not closed (since it is accelerating) I have been reading different websites on how the universe would look like if it was closed and the big crunch did occur.

I believe that I understand that from a big bang singularity, the universe expanded into a low entropy plasma (leptons, quarks, …) and from here, the entropy increased as structures form. When a closed universe starts collapsing and is headed back towards a singularity, the entropy of the universe must be increasing so the particle plasma just before the big crunch would be a high entropy plasma now.

Question: if I could make some measurement on the plasma just before the big crunch occurs (at least one Planck time ($t_P$) before it occurs and I assume the second law of thermodynamics whould still be valid), how would I distinguish between the low entropy plasma of the big bang vs. the high entropy plasma just before the big crunch?

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    $\begingroup$ No-one knows. The question about why the entropy was so low just after the Big Bang is still an open one and there is no widely accepted mechanism to explain it. $\endgroup$ – John Rennie Jul 29 '14 at 9:40
  • $\begingroup$ @JohnRennie: If the second law of thermo is correct then the universe must of started in a lower entropy state than what is now present. So regardless of the mechanism to explain its origin, I still see the same scenario of a high entropy plasma were the second law holds until a Planck time before a singularity is reached. Is my thinking incorrect here? $\endgroup$ – Carlos Jul 30 '14 at 4:46
  • $\begingroup$ Your observations of the universe (correctly) show that entropy was low just after the Big Bang and has been increasing since. However the same observations show the universe is expanding and won't recollapse. So you can't appeal to observation to support the claim that entropy must transition from high to low during a Big Bounce. $\endgroup$ – John Rennie Jul 30 '14 at 4:53


I’m going to answer your question from a completely different perspective than current physics.

I have been working on a New Way of looking at physics from Inner Space through Outer Space for the past 7 years.

Your question relates to Outer Space.

I believe the COSMOS is a closed system and cycles along a Cosmological Entropy Wave.

All Matter – Energy – aNd Dynamics: MEND was contained in a singular super huge Origin Particle 120 Billion light years in diameter before NATURE’S TRUE BIG BANG.

External Entropy 0, Dark Energy 0, Dark Matter 0, Pressure 0, Temperature 0.

Everything was contained inside HER Origin Particle.

After HER TRUE BIG BANG there were Universe Size Chunks, Galactic Sized Chunks, Solar Sized Chunks, Planet Sized Chunks, and Plasma and dust flying out into the newly formed Outer Space. Thus there is an Entropy level greater than 0. Dark Energy Spiking.

At the Core of this TRUE BIG BANG is a Super Vacuum Dark Hole. Literally a hole in space with a great vacuum energy.

As these Chunks fly out into Outer Space they have secondary, tertiary, and on and on various levels of little Big Bangs that increase the entropy and form universes, galaxies, stars, solar systems, planets, and more plasma and dust and increase the entropy. Dark Energy reaches a maximum and begins to decrease.

We even have tiny little Big Bangs going off in Outer Space today increasing the entropy. And we have many more Dark Holes formed.

As the COSMOS is expanding from our view point which is increasing entropy it has already started collapsing at the CORE which is actually decreasing entropy. Thus one needs to consider total system entropy and not just conditions at individual points. The COSMOS after all is a very dynamic place.

When Dark Energy again reaches zero in the maximum expanse of the COSMOS, total system entropy maximum, the Vacuum Core Dark Hole will complete the collapse and recycle it all over again. And Again and Again. Thus the total system entropy will decrease in the collapse and thus a wave function develops.

A new singular super huge origin particle develops and external entropy is zero. Everything is internal to the Origin Particle once again.

Now to answer your question.

If you want to distinguish between the COSMIC beginning point of entropy, the peak point of entropy (prior to collapse), and the end point of entropy, you need to look at the rate of change of the entropy at each point. There would be a very high rate of entropy change in the beginning and a very low rate of entropy change just before the collapse, near zero change, and a very high rate of entropy change at the end.

Dark Energy can be a tracer for this, for Dark Energy at zero will mark the beginning of the collapse. It appears Dark Energy would increase again for a time during the collapse while entropy would be decreasing.

The catch is that the COSMIC Plane-Plain could be 120 Trillion light years in diameter and we can only see 20 billion light years of our local universe within the COSMIC Plane-Plain. I used Plane-Plain because the COSMOS appears to be a flying flat discuss shape, much like the Milky Way Galaxy.

Hope this helps.

You can see an introduction to my work and ask more questions at:


Sincerely & Respectfully,


  • $\begingroup$ Whenever you need to invent a bunch of new terms and acronyms for your theory it's a hint you're on the wrong track. $\endgroup$ – Brandon Enright Aug 4 '14 at 3:17
  • $\begingroup$ What is "inner space"? What is "outer space"? What is a "Cosmological Entropy Wave"? What is a "singular super huge Origin Particle 120 Billion light years in diameter" and how did you derive its size? What is "Dark Energy Spiking"? What evidence is there for "little Big Bangs"? What are "Dark Holes"? $\endgroup$ – Brandon Enright Aug 4 '14 at 3:26
  • $\begingroup$ @BrandonEnright In looking at any dynamic processing system it is of little use to look at a specific static condition at one or two points. Your much better off looking at the rate of change of one of the indicators in the process. In this case I recommended that Carlos look at the rate of change of entropy. Current theory with inflation indicates that the rate of change is very high in the beginning. The big crunch theory requires that the rate of change go to zero before it can crunch. Any time a rate of change goes from maximum to zero and reverses and cycles you have a wave. $\endgroup$ – user56087 Aug 5 '14 at 11:28
  • $\begingroup$ @BrandonEnright A theory is a best guess to for understanding observations in systems. When a theory, like current theory cannot present a good understanding for many of the observations that we have in Cosmology, Outer Space, we need to look at new theories. As the old saying goes necessity is the mother of invention. I have spent the last seven years working on a new theory, which has culminated in a 400+ page work. The link was to hyper-compressed 2 minute introduction to the work. You can ask your questions at the link location. I would be more than happy to answer them there. TY $\endgroup$ – user56087 Aug 5 '14 at 11:39

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