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we can write the differencial of the hamilton using its equations :

$$ d{H(q,p)} = -\dot{p}d{q} + \dot{q}d{p} $$

However we can write :

$$ d(\dot{p}q)=\dot{p}dq+qd\dot{p}$$ and we can replace

$$ -\dot{p}dq = -d(\dot{p}q)+qd{\dot{p}}$$

We therefore get

$$ d{(H+\dot{p}q)} = \dot{q}dp+qd\dot{p}$$

We can now define a new quantities $$ W(p,\dot{p}) = H+\dot{p}q$$ which satisfies

$$dW(p,\dot{p}) = \frac{\partial W}{\partial p} dp+\frac{\partial W}{\partial \dot{p}} d\dot{p}$$ with

$$ \frac{\partial W}{\partial p} = \dot{q}$$ $$ \frac{\partial W}{\partial \dot{p}} = q$$

Now when we replace the Hamiltonian by it canonical form:

$$ H(q,p) = \frac{p^{2}}{2m} + V(q)$$

and we replace it it the W, we get

$$ W(p,\dot{p}) = \frac{p^{2}}{2m} + V(q) + \dot{p}q$$

Now we can use the fact that $$ \dot{p} = -\frac{dV}{dq}$$ and we can recognize the legendre transformation of the potentiel V which is define in term of the conjugate variable $ \dot{p}$, we can call it $A(\dot{p})$, which satisfies the equation

$$ q = \frac{dA(\dot{p})}{d \dot{p}}$$.

So my question is that i am trying to understand the physical meaning of the last equation which gives us back the fundamental principle of dynamics, and particularly the meaning of the $A(\dot{p})$ which is the legendre transformation of the potential.

Finally could you tell me if it is usefull to introduce a new such quantity $W$.

Vincent Woiline

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What you are doing is getting the Lagrangian of the momentum-configuration space. It is formally equivalent to the standard classical mechanics, basically equally difficult to solve, and is just so weird that people do not work in terms of it.

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  • $\begingroup$ Yes i think it is not a method which is easy to compute but could you tell me if there is a physical meaning of taking the legendre transformation of the potential or if it is just a mathematical tool without physical aspect $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 7, 2023 at 10:51
  • $\begingroup$ I just said that it is the version of the Lagranging for momentum $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 7, 2023 at 11:06
  • $\begingroup$ Ok but that doesn't aswer to my question which is the physical meaning. In thermodynamics the enthalpy is the legendre transformation of the energy which transforms the representation (S, V) to (S,p) but in the end, the enthalpy and the energy don't describe the same thing $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 7, 2023 at 15:50
  • $\begingroup$ What physical meaning is given to the Lagrangian and the Hamiltonian? That would be the same meaning to what you have. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 7, 2023 at 16:19
  • $\begingroup$ I don't ask for the physical meaning of the quantity W(p,dot(p)) but for the legendre transformation of the potential $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 7, 2023 at 16:26

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