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PROBLEM: The pipe AB of length L is moving at a constant speed $v$. Find the min speed that is needed so that point $B$'s normal force is zero $N_B = 0$

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The solution starts with:

$\bf{a}$$_b = \frac{v^2}{R}$$\bf{e}$$_y$

$\bf{a}$$_A = $$\bf{a}$$_B+\alpha $$\bf{e}$$_Z \times $$\bf{r}$$_{BA}-ω^2$$\bf{r}$$_{BA}$

The solution proceeds setting:

$ω^2 = 0$ whilst $\alpha$ is not zero. How can that be? Can someone help me understand what is going on. I don't seem to have the intuition concerning this one.

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  • $\begingroup$ Why don't you think it is possible for a rotational velocity to be zero but the rotational acceleration be non-zero? $\endgroup$
    – Kyle Kanos
    Commented Oct 19, 2015 at 17:14
  • $\begingroup$ @KyleKanos because it just feels logical that if sth has acceleration it should also have velocity. I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter too! $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 20, 2015 at 5:54
  • $\begingroup$ Throw a ball up in the air, it has a constant acceleration of 9.81 m/s/s throughout but, at its apex, has zero velocity (when it changes direction). Similar thing can happen with rotational motion (e.g., a disk that is slowing down due to a deceleration, stopping & going backwards). $\endgroup$
    – Kyle Kanos
    Commented Oct 20, 2015 at 10:13

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Answering your question

We can actually choose any "center of rotation" to calculate about. Suppose we describe this system by fixating on the point $A$ with $a$ being its position along the straight part of the track, specifically $a=0$ being the point in question where the wheel centered at $B$ enters the circular arc of the track. We'll say that from the perspective of $A$, point $B$ is an angle $\theta$ beneath the horizontal.

Using this as the center, the moment of inertia of the rod about its end is $I =m L^2/3$ and it experiences (assuming that normal force $N_B$ is indeed zero!) a constant torque $\tau = m~g~L/2$ (with the force $N_A$ not contributing because it goes through the center of rotation.)

Let me use dots for time-derivatives. At this particular moment the angular velocity $\omega = \dot\theta$ is zero because the beam has not yet started rotating, but the angular acceleration $\alpha = \ddot\theta$ is not zero because the pipe is beginning to change its angular velocity. More specifically, $\alpha = \tau/I = \frac32 g / L.$

So that's the simple answer. Yes, a velocity can be zero when an acceleration is not. It just can't stay zero, but it can certainly be zero. Something similar happens when you are rolling forward and throw your car into reverse; as you add gas, you reach a point where you are stationary relative to the ground (as you must: you go from travelling forwards to travelling backwards!) with a constant acceleration. Or, it's like throwing a ball into the air: eventually it comes to its maximum height, and at that particular instant its velocity is zero, transitioning from positive to negative: but afterwards it accelerates into a negative velocity.

How to finish this problem without a fixation on acceleration

For this sort of "constant acceleration" (albeit angular acceleration) we always see a dependence on the acceleration times $t^2/2$ to get the derivatives right; so in fact $\theta = \frac34~g~t^2/L.$ This is important because we can see that point $B$ is located at coordinates $[x, y] = [a + L~\cos\theta, -L~\sin\theta].$ The normal force is a constraint force: it stops a point from entering a region. To make the normal force zero we need a trajectory which is not passing inside the disk $$[L+r\sin\phi, -R + r \cos\phi]\text{ for }0\le \phi \lt 2\pi\text{ and }0\le r \lt R.$$

What we really care about here is $\phi \approx 0$ where the small angle $\phi$ can leads to the approximate formulas, $\phi$ in radians, of $\cos\phi \approx 1 - \phi^2/2,\;\sin\phi \approx \phi.$ Similarly I have carefully chosen that $\theta \approx 0$ at this place too, so that $\theta$ is also approximated that way.

Now if point $B$ is just barely not violating the constraints then it must mirror this boundary path for small angles and times, so that our approximate boundary $[L + R~\phi, -R~\phi^2/2]$ must approximately equal our approximate position of $B,$ which is $[a + L~(1 - \theta^2/2), -L\theta].$ Writing $a = vt$ and $\theta = \alpha t^2/2$ gives two equations:$$\begin{align}R \phi =&\; v t &+ O(t^4)\\ R\phi^2/2 =&\; L~\alpha~t^2/2 &+ O(t^6). \end{align}$$We see that all of the higher-order stuff is easily neglected with just $\phi = vt/R$ in the first expression, but this can be substituted into the second expression to give $$v^2 / R = L \alpha.$$ This confirms just what your existing equation shows.

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  • $\begingroup$ Thank you for your detailed answer. I find your way of describing easy to follow. I understand the principle of throwing a ball up into the air as well as the previous example. I don't understand though how that applies to this problem. Could you please comment and explain why in this situation we have omega equal to zero :) $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 19, 2015 at 15:41
  • $\begingroup$ @Mathguy007 because it doesn't start out with any rotational oomph: up until it crosses over onto the circular part of the track the pipe has been flat, not rotating. Here's a way to see the value of $\omega$: imagine $v \to \infty.$ The pipe only feels the torque $mgL/2$ for a time $L/v,$ picking up an angular velocity $(g/v) mL^2/(2I),$ which goes to zero like $1/v$. We can therefore ask "for very large v, as it flies off, does it have some steady-state rotation which is not tending to zero?" In this case, no: if you let $v$ get large it fires off like a blowgun dart, with no base $\omega$. $\endgroup$
    – CR Drost
    Commented Oct 19, 2015 at 15:49
  • $\begingroup$ @ Chris Drost. I don't know who you are or what you do but you sure know how to explain things :) Thanks so much for your help!!! $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 19, 2015 at 15:53

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