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enter image description here

All solutions online I could find to this question takes it as a preconceived fact that as the mass winds, its motion will be perpendicular to the acceleration provided by the thread and hence the speed won't change.

I'm myself uncertain how this is true. This might be an intuitive hunch to solve this question but I can't get myself to not doubt it. Any intuitive explanation or mathematical rigorous proof is welcome although I would prefer understanding this intuitively.

The question is from "Problems in General Physics" - IE Irodov, Q-1.138. I have solved this question further and got the answer, I only have doubt in this particular concept.

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  • $\begingroup$ The direction, and hence the velocity, changes (its magnitude will not). Remember that velocity is a vector. What does not change it the square of the velocity (hence kinetic energy - linear and rotational - will be conserved, but momentum - linear and angular - will not). $\endgroup$
    – joseph h
    Commented Feb 9 at 8:10
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    $\begingroup$ Sorry for that , I meant speed only made a silly silly mistake. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 9 at 8:45
  • $\begingroup$ The key assumption is that the thread is inextensible. Then, ignoring dissipation, the kinetic energy of the disk and hence its speed is conserved, because the only force acting on it does so perperdicularly to its motion, i.e. doesn't work. $\endgroup$
    – Albert
    Commented Feb 9 at 10:06
  • $\begingroup$ @Albert Why does the force always act perpendicular to its motion? That exactly is my question. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 9 at 11:01

2 Answers 2

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It follows from the theorem of kinetic energy, namely $$\dot{K} = P^{tot} = P^{ext} + P^{int} \ ,$$ i.e. the time derivative of the kinetic energy of a closed system equals the total power (sum of internal and external) of forces and moments acting on it.

In the complete system, there is no action with net power, neither internal or external (see below). Thus, the kinetic energy is constant. The only thing moving is the disk, so kinetic energy only has its contribution. Thus $$K^{disk} = \frac{1}{2} m |\mathbf{v}_P|^2 = \text{const.}$$

Forces in the system has no power - Proof. The wire is assumed to be inexstensible and massless. This implies that it transfer traction $T$ along its direction.

The only force acting on the disk is the rope tension, $T$, that is always orthogonal to the trajectory, and thus it has no power no the disk, and thus the disk keeps constant kinetic energy.

Let's prove it, with reference at the following figure.

enter image description here

Position of the disk is $$\mathbf{r}_P(t) = \mathbf{\hat{x}}(R\sin\theta+(\ell_0-R\theta)\cos\theta) + \mathbf{\hat{y}}(-R\cos\theta+(\ell_0-R\theta)\sin\theta)$$

Its velocity is $$\mathbf{v}_P(t) = -\mathbf{\hat{x}}(\ell-R\theta)\dot{\theta}\sin\theta + \mathbf{\hat{y}}(\ell-R\theta)\dot{\theta}\cos\theta$$

Tension: $$\mathbf{T} = -T (\mathbf{\hat{x}}\cos\theta + \mathbf{\hat{y}}\sin\theta)$$

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  • $\begingroup$ How did you come up with the expression for the velocity of the particle ? $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 9 at 10:58
  • $\begingroup$ time derivative of the position. How did I come up with position? Kinematic constraints of decreasing free length of the rope ($\ell = \ell_0 - R\theta$, initial free length - length wrapped on the cylinder), along with the condition of straight wire (since massless, this follows from equilibrium of the wire) $\endgroup$
    – basics
    Commented Feb 9 at 11:03
  • $\begingroup$ Ok makes sense now. Also did you yourself have the intuition that speed will remain constant at the first glance or did you have to do all the math to get that. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 9 at 11:21
  • $\begingroup$ Intuition may be misleading, more times than one would expect. Anyway, when you have an intuition, you need to prove with math $\endgroup$
    – basics
    Commented Feb 9 at 11:27
  • $\begingroup$ Sure, thank your for that. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 9 at 11:34
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A change in speed would imply a change in kinetic energy. But, as we see from the diagram, there is no energy input to the system; for example no-one is pulling the thread through a distance. Neither is any work done against friction. So there is no change in the disc's kinetic energy or speed. It follows that the direction of the string's pull on the disc is at right angles to the disc's velocity.

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  • $\begingroup$ I think that the main intuitive hurdle is that the distance to the cylinder becomes shorter. That is, the thread seems to be pulled through a distance. I think any answer would do good to explain why that is not physically the case. Simply claiming that is not the case does not suffice for me. $\endgroup$
    – fishinear
    Commented Feb 9 at 15:50
  • $\begingroup$ "the thread seems to be pulled through a distance" Essentially the string is being held at points successively nearer A. It is not being pulled through a distance. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 9 at 16:57

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