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Marko Gulin
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Sand falls from a stationary hopper onto a freight car that moves with uniform velocity $v$. The sand falls at a rate of $dm/dt$. What force is needed to keep the freight car moving at the speed of $v$?

Hopper car problem

(Source: Variable Mass in Newtonian Mechanics)

The correct solution is $F = \frac{d}{dt} mv = v \frac{dm}{dt}$.

I found a contradiction if I use the work-energy theorem to solve the problem

$$W = \Delta K = \frac{1}{2} m v^2$$

$$F = \frac{dW}{dx} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{1}{2} m v^2\right) = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dx} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / \frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / v = \frac{1}{2} v \frac{dm}{dt}$$

What is wrong with this approach?

I found in Kinetic energy of a variable mass particle that the form of the kinetic energy derived from the Newton's second law of motion with variable mass is consistent with the conclusion here. Does that mean that the standard form of the work-energy theorem does not apply when solving problems with a variable mass?

Sand falls from a stationary hopper onto a freight car that moves with uniform velocity $v$. The sand falls at a rate of $dm/dt$. What force is needed to keep the freight car moving at the speed of $v$

Hopper car problem

(Source: Variable Mass in Newtonian Mechanics)

The correct solution is $F = \frac{d}{dt} mv = v \frac{dm}{dt}$.

I found a contradiction if I use the work-energy theorem to solve the problem

$$W = \Delta K = \frac{1}{2} m v^2$$

$$F = \frac{dW}{dx} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{1}{2} m v^2\right) = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dx} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / \frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / v = \frac{1}{2} v \frac{dm}{dt}$$

What is wrong with this approach?

I found in Kinetic energy of a variable mass particle that the form of the kinetic energy derived from the Newton's second law of motion with variable mass is consistent with the conclusion here. Does that mean that the standard form of the work-energy theorem does not apply when solving problems with a variable mass?

Sand falls from a stationary hopper onto a freight car that moves with uniform velocity $v$. The sand falls at a rate of $dm/dt$. What force is needed to keep the freight car moving at the speed of $v$?

Hopper car problem

(Source: Variable Mass in Newtonian Mechanics)

The correct solution is $F = \frac{d}{dt} mv = v \frac{dm}{dt}$.

I found a contradiction if I use the work-energy theorem to solve the problem

$$W = \Delta K = \frac{1}{2} m v^2$$

$$F = \frac{dW}{dx} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{1}{2} m v^2\right) = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dx} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / \frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / v = \frac{1}{2} v \frac{dm}{dt}$$

What is wrong with this approach?

I found in Kinetic energy of a variable mass particle that the form of the kinetic energy derived from the Newton's second law of motion with variable mass is consistent with the conclusion here. Does that mean that the standard form of the work-energy theorem does not apply when solving problems with a variable mass?

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Marko Gulin
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Contradiction in Newtonian Mechanicsmechanics with Hopper-Freight Car Problemvariable mass in hopper car problem

Here is where I found the problem: https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/589954/330587

Sand falls from a stationary hopper onto a freight car that moves with uniform velocity 𝑣$v$. The sand falls at a rate of 𝑑𝑚/𝑑𝑡$dm/dt$. What force is needed to keep the freight car moving at the speed of 𝑣?$v$

Hopper car problem

(Source: Variable Mass in Newtonian Mechanics)

Diagram

The correct solution is $F = \frac{dmv}{dt} = \frac{dm}{dt} v$$F = \frac{d}{dt} mv = v \frac{dm}{dt}$.

I found a contradiction if I use the work-energy theorem to solve the problem.

$\begin{equation}W = \Delta KE = \frac{1}{2} m v^2\end{equation}$$$W = \Delta K = \frac{1}{2} m v^2$$

$F = \frac{dW}{dx} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{1}{2} m v^2\right) = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dx} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / \frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / v = \frac{1}{2} v \frac{dm}{dt}$$$F = \frac{dW}{dx} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{1}{2} m v^2\right) = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dx} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / \frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / v = \frac{1}{2} v \frac{dm}{dt}$$

What is wrong with this approach? 

I also found on thein post by RyanKinetic energy of a variable mass particle that the form of the kinetic energy derivatedderived from the Newton's Secondsecond law of motion with variable mass is consistent with the conclusion here. But doesDoes that mean that the standard form of the work-energy theorem does not apply when solving problems with a variable mass?

I haven't found other similar questions on the internet yet. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Contradiction in Newtonian Mechanics with Hopper-Freight Car Problem

Here is where I found the problem: https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/589954/330587

Sand falls from a stationary hopper onto a freight car that moves with uniform velocity 𝑣. The sand falls at a rate of 𝑑𝑚/𝑑𝑡. What force is needed to keep the freight car moving at the speed of 𝑣?

Diagram

The correct solution is $F = \frac{dmv}{dt} = \frac{dm}{dt} v$.

I found a contradiction if I use the work-energy theorem to solve the problem.

$\begin{equation}W = \Delta KE = \frac{1}{2} m v^2\end{equation}$

$F = \frac{dW}{dx} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{1}{2} m v^2\right) = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dx} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / \frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / v = \frac{1}{2} v \frac{dm}{dt}$

What is wrong with this approach? I also found on the post by Ryan that the form of the kinetic energy derivated from Newton's Second law with variable mass is consistent with the conclusion here. But does that mean the standard form of the work-energy theorem does not apply when solving problems with variable mass?

I haven't found other similar questions on the internet yet. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Contradiction in Newtonian mechanics with variable mass in hopper car problem

Sand falls from a stationary hopper onto a freight car that moves with uniform velocity $v$. The sand falls at a rate of $dm/dt$. What force is needed to keep the freight car moving at the speed of $v$

Hopper car problem

(Source: Variable Mass in Newtonian Mechanics)

The correct solution is $F = \frac{d}{dt} mv = v \frac{dm}{dt}$.

I found a contradiction if I use the work-energy theorem to solve the problem

$$W = \Delta K = \frac{1}{2} m v^2$$

$$F = \frac{dW}{dx} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{1}{2} m v^2\right) = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dx} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / \frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / v = \frac{1}{2} v \frac{dm}{dt}$$

What is wrong with this approach? 

I found in Kinetic energy of a variable mass particle that the form of the kinetic energy derived from the Newton's second law of motion with variable mass is consistent with the conclusion here. Does that mean that the standard form of the work-energy theorem does not apply when solving problems with a variable mass?

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Here is where I found the problem: https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/589954/330587

Sand falls from a stationary hopper onto a freight car that moves with uniform velocity 𝑣. The sand falls at a rate of 𝑑𝑚/𝑑𝑡. What force is needed to keep the freight car moving at the speed of 𝑣? Diagram

Diagram

The correct conclusionsolution is $F = \frac{dmv}{dt} = \frac{dm}{dt} v$.

I found a contradiction if I use the work-energy theorem to solve the problem.

$\begin{equation}W = \Delta KE = \frac{1}{2} m v^2\end{equation}$

$F = \frac{dW}{dx} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{1}{2} m v^2\right) = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dx} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / \frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / v = \frac{1}{2} v \frac{dm}{dt}$

What is wrong with this approach? I also found on the post by Ryan that the form of the kinetic energy derivated from Newton's Second law with variable mass is consistent with the conclusion here. But does that mean the standard form of the work-energy theorem does not apply when solving problems with variable mass?

I haven't found other similar questions inon the internet yet. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is where I found the problem: https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/589954/330587

Sand falls from a stationary hopper onto a freight car that moves with uniform velocity 𝑣. The sand falls at a rate of 𝑑𝑚/𝑑𝑡. What force is needed to keep the freight car moving at the speed of 𝑣? Diagram

The correct conclusion is $F = \frac{dmv}{dt} = \frac{dm}{dt} v$.

I found a contradiction if I use the work-energy theorem to solve the problem.

$\begin{equation}W = \Delta KE = \frac{1}{2} m v^2\end{equation}$

$F = \frac{dW}{dx} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{1}{2} m v^2\right) = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dx} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / \frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / v = \frac{1}{2} v \frac{dm}{dt}$

What is wrong with this approach? I also found on the post by Ryan that the form of the kinetic energy derivated from Newton's Second law with variable mass is consistent with the conclusion here. But does that mean the standard form of the work-energy theorem does not apply when solving problems with variable mass?

I haven't found other similar questions in the internet yet. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is where I found the problem: https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/589954/330587

Sand falls from a stationary hopper onto a freight car that moves with uniform velocity 𝑣. The sand falls at a rate of 𝑑𝑚/𝑑𝑡. What force is needed to keep the freight car moving at the speed of 𝑣?

Diagram

The correct solution is $F = \frac{dmv}{dt} = \frac{dm}{dt} v$.

I found a contradiction if I use the work-energy theorem to solve the problem.

$\begin{equation}W = \Delta KE = \frac{1}{2} m v^2\end{equation}$

$F = \frac{dW}{dx} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{1}{2} m v^2\right) = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dx} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / \frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{1}{2} v^2 \frac{dm}{dt} / v = \frac{1}{2} v \frac{dm}{dt}$

What is wrong with this approach? I also found on the post by Ryan that the form of the kinetic energy derivated from Newton's Second law with variable mass is consistent with the conclusion here. But does that mean the standard form of the work-energy theorem does not apply when solving problems with variable mass?

I haven't found other similar questions on the internet yet. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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