# Does hot air really rise?

"Heat rises" or "warm air rises" is a widely used phrase (and widely accepted phenomenon).

Does hot air really rise? Or is it simply displaced by colder (denser) air pulled down by gravity?

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What is the difference? –  Mark Eichenlaub Mar 4 '11 at 1:38
I suppose the difference is: does thermal motion present in hot air cause it to somehow collectively shimmy its way upwards, displacing the (erstwhile) stationary cold air, or is the true behavior described by the mechanism in his question? –  wsc Mar 4 '11 at 1:42
I suppose I'm looking for clarification. It strikes me that in the absence of cold(er) air, the only relevant force acting on the hot air would be gravity, pulling it down. Is there another force that I'm missing? –  jasonmklug Mar 4 '11 at 1:42
Yes, WSC... that's about the gist of what I'm wondering. If the cold air were stationary (maybe we assume the cold air is magically unaffected by gravity), would the hot air still rise? –  jasonmklug Mar 4 '11 at 1:45
@Distil: In the absence of other fluid around it, it simply disperses (drifts off into the vacuum) or sit there tightly confines (micro bubbles in some solid). The question only makes sense in the context of a bulk fluid, and then the two cases are one and the same. –  dmckee Mar 4 '11 at 2:32

The mechanism responsible for the rising of hot air is flotation: Hot air is less dense than cold air and hence air pressure will exert an upwards force, in the same way air rises in water. Now if cold air was magically unaffected by gravity, then it would not be able to exert pressure on the hot air and thus it would not rise.

The statement that "heat rises", by the way, is not universally true. Look at water. Here, it is the cold water that is less dense than warm water (at least in the temperature regime of importance to freezing). In winter, when water gets colder, the cold water raises to the top and eventually will freeze, while the water below remains liquid for the moment.

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"heat rises" is generally nonsense! "Heat" is not a stuff, and diffuses. But fighting this wording is like fighting windmills. –  Georg Mar 4 '11 at 10:15
Agreed. The problem is that heat in everyday-language isn't the same as the physical concept of heat. Same with energy, work, order, theory. What can one do... –  Lagerbaer Mar 5 '11 at 18:07
With respect to water, the temperature at which warm water becomes less dense than cold is 4° C. van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1736 –  Ben Hocking Jun 22 '11 at 18:15

Heat does only 1 thing in a closed system, and that is evenly distribute itself about the system as it reaches thermodynamic equilibrium. I dont think this is what you asking about though. I assume you are talking about hot air (hot being a relative term just meaning it is hotter then the surrounding air). This hot air will be less dense then the surrounding air, and will therefore want to be above the more dense, colder air. If you want to actualy see this, get a beaker of water and add some oil, this is same thing that happens with air (as both cases involve 2 liquids of different densities)

To answer the question exactlty, hot air does rise, and it is also displaced by cold air (though often from the side, not directly above it). And yes, gravity is the reason less dense liquids like to sit on top of more dense liquids

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Another way to think about it is to look at how pressure changes with height. If we place a high density box shaped parcel of fluid immediately next to a lower density fluid parcel, the hydrostatic pressure gradient is greater in the former parcel. So, if say the average pressure of the two parcels is the same, the denser one will have higher pressure at the bottom than the lighter one, and lower pressure than the lighter one at the parcel tops. So the denser parcel will tend to push in at the bottom, and be displaced at the top. To a first order approximation the will rotate, trying to put the lighter parcel on top. If the fluid parcels are of identical composition then the warmer one will be lighter. Of course we a temperature regime in water, where the density versus temperature curve runs backwars between roughly 0C to 4C, and ice is lighter still. But in general warmer fluid is lighter.

In anycase the original question is rhetorical. Do we take the mental shortcut and think in terms of bounancy as a lifting force, or try to be more precise and consider the fluids interaction as the cause. In most cases, I'd prefer the former methodology, as that makes it easier to formulate the dynamics.

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I have a master's in meteorology, so I can help you out. I apologize if this isn't as professional as some of the other responses, but I'm a little tired right now.

Just take, for example, this equation:

$$F_B = \left( \frac{\rho_0-\rho}{\rho}\right)\approx g\cdot\left( \frac{T-T_0}{T_0}\right)$$

We know that warm air has a lower density than cooler air. So if you want to prove to yourself that warm air has a greater buoyant force than cool air, just plug some numbers in. Just assume that rho-not has a value of 1.25 and that rho has a value of 1.00. That gives you a buoyancy of 0.25. Now, take some cooler air. Increase rho-not to around 1.15. This gives you a buoyancy force of 0.09. So indeed, warm air is more buoyant than cool air and thus experiences a positive buoyancy and rises.

Just keep in mind, though, that this is only valid for parcel theory. Obviously in the real world, there are more things going on than just this equation, but this should at least give you a basic understanding.

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The Action force is simultaneous with the Reaction force. One can not happen without the other. Archimedes settled that a less dense fluid move on top of a denser fluid (see Buoyancy - Archimedes' principle) .
(and vice-versa: a denser..moves..to bottom..)

The Rayleigh-Taylor instability describes the evolution of the interface between the two layers. The atomic bomb mushroom cap is due to this effect. (quoting Wikipedia):

RT..is an instability of an interface between two fluids of different densities, which occurs when the lighter fluid is pushing the heavier fluid. This is the case with an interstellar cloud and shock system. The equivalent situation occurs when gravity is acting on two fluids of different density — with the dense fluid above a fluid of lesser density — such as water balancing on light oil.

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I'm going to go over your question bit by bit. Explain some of the language of your question, and then analyze the final answer. My explanations assume prior knowledge of the atomic reality of gases but little else.

First off "heat rises" is a term that should be avoided in a physics discussion. The term "heat" is referring to the transfer of thermal energy from one place to another. It is not a state-quantity. For instance, state quantities are things that are qualities of the matter it self. For instance mass is a state quantity. So is charge. These are the same regardless of other place and time. While "heat" is a description of change, not a description of state. We say a pan on the stove heated up. Or better still a flow of heat from the flame into the pan caused the pan to have a higher temperature. If we said the pan on the stove has heat, that is incorrect, the pan on the stove has thermal energy (a mesure of the mass and temperature of the object), and a temperature.

Reminder: temperature is a mesure of the average kinetic energy of a substance.

Rephrase: Does hot (greater temperature) air rise? Or is it displaced by cold (lower temperature) air?

First: Why does anything fall and rise in a gravitational field? Well it must have a force pushing it up. To change its potential energy (U=mg) a force must act on it.

What is the force that causes a fluid or gas to rise and fall? In all cases it can be described as a pressure.

Pressure is always a relative thing, this is because it isn't pressure that causes things to rise and fall it is a pressure difference or gradient. So what is important is the net pressure, or pressure difference.

First of all this is an important point. If the pressure in a volume is all the same: nothing changes. No air moves (besides individual particles that will move due to brownian motion).

So how can I create a pressure difference to cause one bit of air to rise? To be pushed up?

1) The easiest way is to control how packed the air is, its density. A greater packed group of molecules will have more atoms in a smaller space so it if each molecule is moving at the same speed more collisions occur between the edge of its volume (these changes in momentum cause a force) and it will exert more force: greater pressure.

2) But how do we mesure how fast the particles are going in volume of something? Because if the atoms move faster then there will be greater changes in momentum and more force. Temperature is the mesure of this, the average kinetic energy describes in essence how fast the particles are going.

What does 1) and 2) tell us? Well pressure is controlled by the speed of the particles, and how many of them are in the space. In thermodynamics the equation PV=nRT is used. R is a constant. n is the number of mol (a measure of the number of particles). This says the pressure and volume (V) are related to temperature (speed) and the amount (n).

This says that a hotter volume of the same substance will need to expand to maintain its outward pressure. A colder thing will contract. This is the process of hotter and colder liquids and gases becoming less dense or more dense.

FINAL (Q and A): A: Does hotter air rise? B: Or does cold air displace the hot air causing it to rise?

Well let's test the fist one, hotter implies that it is hotter then something. So if it is hotter then the air around it, the air will expand, the pressure will decrease (since PV is constant) and high pressure, lower density air will push it up: displacing it. Here we see the issue with the question: both A and B are true. If B were not, and cold air wasn't available then there would be no difference in densities, no difference in pressures, and nothing would change. You can not have A without B, and B without A, and mostly this is because a pressure gradient is necessary for changes to occur.

Could you have two gases where the hotter of the two was on the bottom? Yes. A light gas like helium, less dense because its molecules hate each other (personified; sorry), will float all the way out of the earth's atmosphere, leaving hot desert air below.

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More correctly, warm air rises from the heat it receives from the Earths surface, even inside. Then it gets too high to receive heat and sinks, while at the same time, the cool air that has just recieved enough energy to rise takes its place.

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