# If you had two “perfectly” flat surfaces of the same material?

Let's say you had 2 nano-engineered surfaces of diamond which were as 'flat' as possible (of course considering the radii of each carbon atom in the lattice)... would there be any friction between these 2 flat diamond surfaces when rubbed together?

My thinking is that there would be very little to no friction due to the electron repulsion and there being no imperfections in the surfaces.

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I don't know about diamond, but for some materials friction might be a moot point. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_welding –  DJBunk Mar 4 at 20:40

This is a footnote to Chris' answer (+1 BTW :-)

The microsocopic source of friction is exactly the cold welding mentioned by Chris and DJBunk. When you touch two rough surfaces together their real area of contact will be much less than the total area because only the high spots touch. At these high spots the surfaces adhere due to the same forces that act in the bulk (give or take a bit of surface contamination). Friction exists because to slide the surfaces you have to fracture them along the contact points and this takes energy.

The usual (approximate) formula for friction, $F_f = \mu F_n$, arises because the real area of contact is roughly proportional to load. As you increase the load you deform the points where the surfaces touch and therefore increase the real area of contact and adhesion.

Your example of a perfectly smooth surface is simply the limit of the real area of contact becoming equal to the total area, which in principle would happen at extremely high loads. The result (again ignoring surface contamination) would be that the surfaces fuse with at worst a grain boundary between them.

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So the observation that a macroscopically smooth surface produces less friction than a rough one is due to a different mechanism? Perhaps just the "high spots" hitting each other directly? –  deadly Mar 5 at 11:14
Imagine sliding two sheets of corrugated iron over each other. As the "peaks" coincide the sheets move apart, then as "peaks" slid down into "valleys" the sheets move together again. The work put in to pushing the sheets apart against the normal load causes friction. This would be true even if the corrugated iron was coated in PTFE or indeed a thin film of oil. This source of friction is unrelated to surface properties. If you gradually flattened the corrugated iron the friction would decrease to a minimum then start rising once the sheets became microscopically flat. –  John Rennie Mar 5 at 12:15